Our wounds run deep and in the case of the narcissistic personality,
there is a deep denial as well. There is a denial that says “I can’t
possibly be this unhappy, or in this much pain. It has to be her/his
fault. She/he is making me feel this way.”
http://www.narcissismfree.com/art-narcissistic-bubble.php
Can narcissism be cured?
http://www.narcissismfree.com/art-narcissistic-bubble.php
Can narcissism be cured?
"I think the problem we have here is that most people seeking the change are the victims of narcissistic abuse,
not the narcissists themselves. The victims entertain fantasies of
approaching the narcissist and saying "honey, I think you might have a
problem, or you may have narcissistic personality disorder, and I need you to get some help for this little problem or I'm going to leave."
The fantasy is that the narcissist will say
"yes, honey, you are absolutely right, I've always felt something was
deeply wrong with me and I want to change. I will schedule an
appointment with the therapist this week."
HA! Not likely, although I'm sure some
readers have heard a similar story in the narcissist's attempt to gain
control of the relationship.
The more likely reaction will be the wrath of narcissistic rage
being unleashed upon you. You have just threatened his security, which
is the illusion he lives in. You are likely to be the subject of attack
on just why it is that YOU are the one with the problem and he will
deliver his wrath in such a way you begin to believe it."
http://www.narcissismfree.com/cure-for-narcissism.php
More Narcissism Understood: M. Evans
"Narcissism is a grave condition of insecurity and desperately
feeling unloved and unacceptable. An individual with Narcissistic
Personality Disorder inherently believes they are ‘damaged
goods’ and fears other individuals will discover the truth:
that they feel powerless. Thus the narcissist invests a great
deal of energy into ‘gaining the upper hand’, to hide
feeling vulnerable, insecure and broken. When they are getting
what they want, the charm is flowing and plentiful. When the charm
doesn’t work the intimidation begins. Narcissism is categorised
as an unhealthy level of self-absorption and a lack of empathy regarding how their insecure, aggressive
and damaging behaviour affects the world around them.
Sadly, when many women realise that the narcissist is insecure and isn’t reassured, she’ll try harder to love him. Additionally he’ll blame his behaviour on something that you are or aren’t doing, and as women we may try to ‘do it better’ or ‘get it right’. Your increased efforts to love him and make him happy only lines you up for more abuse. "
http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/articles/narcissism-understood.htm
>>>(From me:) The person who has Narcissism pretty much got stuck at a childhood stage when something happened to him or her, so this personality issue is not difficult to understand if one can remember what a lot of children are like, before they develop the ability to empathize with other people. Before they learn to include others in their thoughts, actions, and plans. Before they learn to think about HOW they are reacting. Before they learn about how to treat others, and WHY, and before they learn that other people, regardless of their race or gender, are just as real and important as themselves. Remember the little boys on the local baseball team? Remember how they were trying to be "men", by trying to act tough and trying to boss people around? Including adults, like their mothers, seeing how far they could go? Confusing self-confidence with superiority. And remember that their displays of frustration and anger were still very childlike, and they would react in a mean, tantrum way if they didn't get what they wanted? Remember how they would have one kid as a friend one day, and ditch that kid the next day, because a "tougher" kid wanted to play? And made up excuses for their inconsiderate and self-centered behavior, trying to justify it? Remember how they would break the rules, or do something mean, and believe that saying "I'm sorry" or giving a present actually erased the misdeed, and fixed all the damage they caused, so they didn't learn not to do it again, or why? Remember how, when they were caught doing something wrong, they would try to shrug off accountability by accusing someone else of doing something wrong too? ("Jimmy, you hit your brother, you are grounded." "Yeah but he hit me last week!" "Yes, and he was grounded for it." "It's not fair!" "How is that not fair?" "Because, he was bothering me, that's why I hit him!"...) That's the age that the narcissist is stuck. They are stuck in the snapshot of that age. The trauma could have been anything, something you wouldn't even consider.
People can and do grow out of that stage, naturally, in a healthy environment, with supportive adults. But take those factors away; healthy environment, supportive adults; and you get a kid who has to raise himself. If a person with this issue seeks help for it, and gets the right help, they can recover. The biggest obstacle is the fact that the person will probably kick and scream at the thought of "getting help", or of facing that there is anything "wrong" with them at all. Children do not feel immature, or developmentally halted. They feel as if they are at the pinnacle of maturity, no matter what age they are at. And so does a person who is stuck in childhood. The good news for an adult narcissist is that he is not a child, and so his maturity would go much, much faster, since he has actually lived through years of life. He has a wealth of experience to draw from. It's his getting to the help that is the problem, and being able to face it.
>>>If he can't, then he will remain at that age for the rest of his life, tragically. He will remain at an age where he does not find joy in supporting others, where he does not want to "sit down and watch" his sister play baseball, but wants her to go away so he can have the spotlight and have everyone only clap for him; where he believes that he is superior, and he belongs to the group that is the most superior and who have authority over others; where he believes that all the presents should be for him, and all the pity, and all the applause, and all the understanding and sympathy, and therefore does not have any for anyone else; where he gets bored listening to someone else's stories and opinions very quickly, and will always try to bring the conversation back to his own point of view, and if he can't he will sulk, whine, attack, cause a distraction, or leave; where he becomes hurt or angry if everything he does is not applauded by people he ignores and dismisses; where he can not put down his own troubles, OR accomplishments, in order to support someone else for any length of time; where he really believes that his is better than others, or more put-upon than others, or smarter than others, or has more potential than others, has more important things to do than others, or suffers more than others, and therefore deserves special treatment, and that they do not.
>>>If he can, then he can recover.
Sadly, when many women realise that the narcissist is insecure and isn’t reassured, she’ll try harder to love him. Additionally he’ll blame his behaviour on something that you are or aren’t doing, and as women we may try to ‘do it better’ or ‘get it right’. Your increased efforts to love him and make him happy only lines you up for more abuse. "
http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/articles/narcissism-understood.htm
>>>(From me:) The person who has Narcissism pretty much got stuck at a childhood stage when something happened to him or her, so this personality issue is not difficult to understand if one can remember what a lot of children are like, before they develop the ability to empathize with other people. Before they learn to include others in their thoughts, actions, and plans. Before they learn to think about HOW they are reacting. Before they learn about how to treat others, and WHY, and before they learn that other people, regardless of their race or gender, are just as real and important as themselves. Remember the little boys on the local baseball team? Remember how they were trying to be "men", by trying to act tough and trying to boss people around? Including adults, like their mothers, seeing how far they could go? Confusing self-confidence with superiority. And remember that their displays of frustration and anger were still very childlike, and they would react in a mean, tantrum way if they didn't get what they wanted? Remember how they would have one kid as a friend one day, and ditch that kid the next day, because a "tougher" kid wanted to play? And made up excuses for their inconsiderate and self-centered behavior, trying to justify it? Remember how they would break the rules, or do something mean, and believe that saying "I'm sorry" or giving a present actually erased the misdeed, and fixed all the damage they caused, so they didn't learn not to do it again, or why? Remember how, when they were caught doing something wrong, they would try to shrug off accountability by accusing someone else of doing something wrong too? ("Jimmy, you hit your brother, you are grounded." "Yeah but he hit me last week!" "Yes, and he was grounded for it." "It's not fair!" "How is that not fair?" "Because, he was bothering me, that's why I hit him!"...) That's the age that the narcissist is stuck. They are stuck in the snapshot of that age. The trauma could have been anything, something you wouldn't even consider.
People can and do grow out of that stage, naturally, in a healthy environment, with supportive adults. But take those factors away; healthy environment, supportive adults; and you get a kid who has to raise himself. If a person with this issue seeks help for it, and gets the right help, they can recover. The biggest obstacle is the fact that the person will probably kick and scream at the thought of "getting help", or of facing that there is anything "wrong" with them at all. Children do not feel immature, or developmentally halted. They feel as if they are at the pinnacle of maturity, no matter what age they are at. And so does a person who is stuck in childhood. The good news for an adult narcissist is that he is not a child, and so his maturity would go much, much faster, since he has actually lived through years of life. He has a wealth of experience to draw from. It's his getting to the help that is the problem, and being able to face it.
>>>If he can't, then he will remain at that age for the rest of his life, tragically. He will remain at an age where he does not find joy in supporting others, where he does not want to "sit down and watch" his sister play baseball, but wants her to go away so he can have the spotlight and have everyone only clap for him; where he believes that he is superior, and he belongs to the group that is the most superior and who have authority over others; where he believes that all the presents should be for him, and all the pity, and all the applause, and all the understanding and sympathy, and therefore does not have any for anyone else; where he gets bored listening to someone else's stories and opinions very quickly, and will always try to bring the conversation back to his own point of view, and if he can't he will sulk, whine, attack, cause a distraction, or leave; where he becomes hurt or angry if everything he does is not applauded by people he ignores and dismisses; where he can not put down his own troubles, OR accomplishments, in order to support someone else for any length of time; where he really believes that his is better than others, or more put-upon than others, or smarter than others, or has more potential than others, has more important things to do than others, or suffers more than others, and therefore deserves special treatment, and that they do not.
>>>If he can, then he can recover.
Narcissism Understood M. Evans
This I have witnessed way too many times in the Northeast, not just toward me:
"Male narcissists are misogynists. They desperately seek women yet inwardly despise them. These men are totally turned on by extreme sexuality yet are perversely disgusted by attractive female attributes, believing women are promiscuous, sexually manipulative and attention seeking. The male narcissist will often play out a deep subconscious ‘mother-revenge’ by running his female partner into the ground. He will destroy her self-esteem, femininity and sexuality piece by piece."
http://www.melanietoniaevans.com/articles/narcissism-understood.htm
Control Behavior
There are a lot of human beings who habitually try to control others. A LOT of them. The reasons vary, but often come back to trying to make others fulfill their needs and desires, including simply a feeling of being in control. These people are all around us, in all walks of life, in all socio-economic and political groups, in every neighborhood, in nearly all families. Some try to control a lot, some a little, but it is all a means to an end, their end.
People who seek a lot of control and who have anger and resentment issues, and also want to remain being seen as "innocent", "laid back", "cool", often use Passive Aggressive behavior. Taking a jab at another person in a sideways kind of way, with the intent of getting away with it. Of appearing guilt free, or as the real victim. These were the kids who walk by the neighbor's dog too close, in order to get its attention and make him bark, but look straight ahead whistling while doing it. They are the wife who "forgets" that she made plans with her girlfriend on Friday night, and the husband who "forgets" that he said he was going to be around all day on Saturday. The mother who makes her son's least favorite sandwich for school lunch, and the father who fixes the car while his daughter isn't home, after she asked him to teach her how. The "friend" who never notices anything you accomplish, or acts indifferent toward anything creative you do.
One of the hardest things to believe about Controllers is how they go about gaining control over another; they LEARN. Step by step, inch by inch, through observation, trial and error, exactly what makes another person tick. That is why they are so effective, and so damaging. The mother who invalidates her daughter when she begins to show enthusiasm about astronomy, but practically applauds when her daughter expresses an interest in healthcare. They are very specific, and very sly. If this mother catches the tiniest twinkle in the eye of her daughter when there is anything about astronomy within 5 miles, she will shut her down, and do it so covertly that all the daughter thinks is happening is that she simply can't get her astronomy interest off the ground, to create anything practical out of it. Anyone can do this to anyone else; children frequently master the art of control over their own parents.
If you would like to learn more about Passive Aggressive behavior, I recommend clicking here:
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/pa_anger.htm
People who seek a lot of control and who have anger and resentment issues, and also want to remain being seen as "innocent", "laid back", "cool", often use Passive Aggressive behavior. Taking a jab at another person in a sideways kind of way, with the intent of getting away with it. Of appearing guilt free, or as the real victim. These were the kids who walk by the neighbor's dog too close, in order to get its attention and make him bark, but look straight ahead whistling while doing it. They are the wife who "forgets" that she made plans with her girlfriend on Friday night, and the husband who "forgets" that he said he was going to be around all day on Saturday. The mother who makes her son's least favorite sandwich for school lunch, and the father who fixes the car while his daughter isn't home, after she asked him to teach her how. The "friend" who never notices anything you accomplish, or acts indifferent toward anything creative you do.
One of the hardest things to believe about Controllers is how they go about gaining control over another; they LEARN. Step by step, inch by inch, through observation, trial and error, exactly what makes another person tick. That is why they are so effective, and so damaging. The mother who invalidates her daughter when she begins to show enthusiasm about astronomy, but practically applauds when her daughter expresses an interest in healthcare. They are very specific, and very sly. If this mother catches the tiniest twinkle in the eye of her daughter when there is anything about astronomy within 5 miles, she will shut her down, and do it so covertly that all the daughter thinks is happening is that she simply can't get her astronomy interest off the ground, to create anything practical out of it. Anyone can do this to anyone else; children frequently master the art of control over their own parents.
If you would like to learn more about Passive Aggressive behavior, I recommend clicking here:
http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/abusiverelationships/a/pa_anger.htm
Top 50 Idiot Sexist Political Quotes
The thing that freaks me out the most about this list is the fact that I
actually used to believe that human beings who had grown to adulthood
did not do this anymore. Interesting how everyone just sweeps it under
the rug, like "it's just the way things
are". Really? Let's see what happens if that amount of racial slurring
spewed out of these mouths and out of their keyboards. What would happen
then? And how exactly did people learn so well to control THAT, but
seem to have a terribly hard time controlling this vomit? Oh... right...
that would be MONKEY GROUP BEHAVIOR. Only stop doing something bad if
I'm gonna get in TROUBLE FOR IT. And only if that trouble doesn't come
with a reward attached to balance it out. FEAR OF CONSEQUENCES, MONKEYS.
If it is horribly wrong to make racist references because it's
disparaging... then... wha??? Huh?? What do you mean, Marianne? Women
are SUPPOSED to be treated like shit! It's the way of the world!!! We
can't help it!!! We're not perfect! Whaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!! Where's my
BINKY???!!! Oh, but wait let me STRAIGHTEN MY TIE SO I CAN RUN THE
WORLD.
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/110242/Top_50_Most_Sexist_Quotes
To be sure, there are people on this list who are entertainment personalities, who create stir on purpose. THEY are "allowed" to spew stupid crap, just like any other entertainer. The people on this list who HOLD OFFICE ARE RESPONSIBLE for the crap they spew, COMPLETELY. They are not creating "art" or providing a topic of conversation or stir. They are ELECTED OFFICIALS. The difference is absolutely HUGE.
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/110242/Top_50_Most_Sexist_Quotes
To be sure, there are people on this list who are entertainment personalities, who create stir on purpose. THEY are "allowed" to spew stupid crap, just like any other entertainer. The people on this list who HOLD OFFICE ARE RESPONSIBLE for the crap they spew, COMPLETELY. They are not creating "art" or providing a topic of conversation or stir. They are ELECTED OFFICIALS. The difference is absolutely HUGE.
Why?
Why would a person NOT want someone else to receive the same respectful treatment as another?
Why would they NOT stand up for someone who is treated like crap because of someone else's prejudice?
What kind of person would defend a person who just treated their friend or loved one with disrespect?
There is a reason, what is it?
Why would they NOT stand up for someone who is treated like crap because of someone else's prejudice?
What kind of person would defend a person who just treated their friend or loved one with disrespect?
There is a reason, what is it?
Blame Shame and Lashing Out
Both the Narcissist and the Borderline Personality desire control over those close to them. However, the reasons differ.
The Narcissist desires control over you because they really believe they are more capable of Life than you are, AND they feel perfectly entitled to your time, your attention, your resources, your services, and your stuff. They deserve it more than you do (your own stuff). If you are not above the Narcissist, you are below him. Anyone above him, in his view, is entitled to their own stuff, because they are special enough to deserve it, and brilliant enough to be capable of handling it. Anyone below the Narcissist in his view, however, is too common, too dumb, too mediocre, too incapable, and just not good enough to deserve to be in control of their own lives, their own stuff, or their own destiny. In fact, anyone who is not above the Narcissist is simply either in the way of the Narcissist's ambitions, or can be used to achieve them. Services that are expected can include praise, admiration, submission, volunteering use of stuff, volunteering any kind of skills, as long as they don't outshine the Narcissist (you can be good at something other than what he's doing), and also financial support.
The Borderline Personality desires control over you because they want your full attention, and they fear abandonment. They also fear that you will be more attractive than them to other people, or that you will find someone more fun or more interesting to hang out with, and leave them behind. Ironically, that's what THEY do; they will ditch you in a New York minute when they are hanging out with someone they find more interesting, or who gives them more of something than you do. More attention, more ego stroking, more adrenaline rushes, more cash, more prestige. Their fear, and attention seeking, drives their anger and their manipulation. They are extremely defensive, and that defensiveness often turns into venom, which they spit at you in various ways. All to keep you within reach, and to keep you from wrecking any manipulations they have going on with anyone else, or even with themselves that they aren't aware of. The Borderline likes to keep people separated, you probably don't have a lot of mutual friends, and if you do, you don't hang out with them much, not together anyway. The Borderline wants to deal with people in a controlled environment.
Both the Narcissist and the Borderline may "punish" you for stepping outside of their control. You may not get the punishment right away, you might get a nasty surprise when you least expect it. Maybe your favorite shirt will disappear; maybe your car will be left unlocked in a bad neighborhood. You might get hit in the back of the head with a shockingly nasty verbal assault while you're happily getting ready for bed, that leaves you feeling like you've been run over by a truck, or dragged behind one. Maybe something else suddenly came up when you are getting ready to go to your brother's wedding. (Well, with the Narcissist, something else probably did come up, like an invitation to go play pool.)
IF you at some point decide you would like to discuss the subject of this relationship where you feel assaulted, controlled, or just sad or unhappy, you will probably not get the healthy response of "Oh I didn't know you felt that way, I'm sorry you are feeling that way, let's talk about it. Let's figure this out." What you will probably get is either a blow-off "I can't talk about this right now" or "We can talk about this later" or "I'm not going to argue with you", or a cold shoulder, complete with crossed arms and turned back, OR you may receive a new, fresh stream of verbal abuses, denying and justifying and defending their own actions, and blaming you for everything under the sun. They are righteous saintly creatures, you are the Enemy. You may even be told you only brought this subject up to make their lives hell... If you keep trying to talk about it, the abuse may escalate, or the loathing may take a turn toward themselves. Basically, the only thing that WILL NOT be talked about is the actual subject you brought up, and there will be no respectful conversation. You can forget about that.
Your needs are not to be viewed as having equal or greater importance than theirs. If you call them, they may not answer; they're too busy, you shouldn't bother them like that. But if they call you and you don't answer, where the hell were you, what the hell were you doing? Because the Narcissist cannot tolerate your petty distractions, and the Borderline is worried that you were doing something to betray them in some way. If you have an emergency, that's your problem. If your family has an emergency, that's THEIR problem. If your child is sick, she's just "trying to get attention" and if you tend to her, you are spoiling her, and just trying to get out of your duty to the Narcissist, or turning your back on the Borderline.
The Narcissist just doesn't have time for your silly problems, and the Borderline's problems must always be much bigger, much worse, than yours.With either of them, your giving time, attention, and emotion to your personal issues is offensive to them. And make sure you don't use up the resources that they might need later (your own resources, that is).
Mistakes! Don't make any. What's that, you're human, you say? Not here. The Narcissist's view of any mistake you make is more evidence that you are of inferior quality. Anything, from typos (even if you type 95 words per minute) to a wrinkle on your shirt, to a missed appointment; all evidence that you are less in their eyes. For them, however, any mistake is just a mistake; and if the hammer misses the nail, it's the hammer's fault. The Borderline also tallies your mistakes, and stores them for future use in defensive arguments, even the ones where they said "oh that's no big deal" at the time. Any time you call them out on something they did wrong, however big or small, and however NOT upset you are about it, they will fire back at you with both barrels. Whether you asked them if they left the ice cream out, or ran over the dog, they will break out the big guns to blast you with your own mistakes, missteps, and often things that you didn't even do. Also, if you bring up something they had done in the past as an example of something you are trying to explain, as a reference point in order to give a clearer picture, they may easily miss your point, misunderstand the discussion altogether, and take it as you "throwing it in their face".
Basically, the Narcissist is controlling more for reasons of offensive domination, and the Borderline is controlling more for defensive reasons. Both will probably hurt you, and both will probably try to justify their actions and try to turn the blame on you for anything and everything. Both do a lot of projection and rationalization , terms definitely worth understanding (even if you're just a regular human bean).
Neither may have any interest in addressing their own issues, or taking responsibility for their own suffering, pain, or behavior. Neither can stand to see their own flaws; the Narcissist can't stand anything that would spoil the image they have created of themselves, and the Borderline has a very hard time with keeping those flaws based in reality; their foibles become horrible failures, their low self esteem becomes self-loathing, their fear becomes terror. The Narcissist is like a Roman God, above all mortals and ruler of peasants, and the Borderline is like a burn victim; if you even look at them wrong you cause them pain, and they thoroughly dismiss the possibility that anyone else could be in as much pain as them, least of all those who should be tending to their wounds. And if you cause them pain for any reason, they feel completely justified in lashing out with as much rage and meanness as comes out of their mouth. A lot like a real burn victim might do, spewing obscenities and screaming at doctors and nurses who are there to save them and heal them, and innocent family and friends who come to visit. As long as they remain wounded, they feel deserving of and entitled to compassion and attention, and carte blanche to forgiveness for any behavior and treatment of others. So the Borderline also may not want to heal, for fear of losing the special status that someone who is wounded is entitled to. The world for both of them is consumed by their own needs, real or perceived.
And yes, a person can harbor traits of both. Healing and recovery is out there, but as the Navi say, "it is hard to fill a cup that is already full." Neither the Narcissist nor the Borderline can stand being seen as anything less than righteous, and both often fear that they will have a finger pointed at them if they seek help. To the Narcissist, no silly psychiatric person could possibly understand them, except for maybe Carl Jung himself, maybe... and to the Borderline who is hyper defensive, going to the psychologist carries the fear of being blamed. And since it is apparent that most, if not all, Borderlines grew up in abusive households, or were abused by another caregiver or authority, their fear is not exactly "crazy", they have been blamed, shamed and punished for things they didn't do too many times. So, they may not be able to wrap their minds around being responsible for their own actions AND NOT getting judged or punished for those actions. Simply analyzing behavioral and emotional patterns in a clinical, objective way may not seem like a real possibility for them.
The Narcissist doesn't give two hens in a coop about what you or a therapist thinks, and the Borderline is already worried about what both you and the therapist are thinking. And already raising hackles in defense, before the first appointment, which may never happen. You may even receive a backlash of passive or outright aggression from the Borderline in response to what they are imagining will happen at the therapist's office. It hasn't actually happened, of course, but they may be churning with real anger at you for what they think you are thinking, or what they imagine will happen.
Unless, of course, the appointment is about "what's wrong" with YOU. And if you're in a relationship of any kind with a Narcissist or a Borderline person, there probably is a good reason for you to keep your therapy appointments, either to deal with the stress of your interactions with them, and/or to find out about co-depency or Borderline symptoms of your own, so you can heal.
The Narcissist desires control over you because they really believe they are more capable of Life than you are, AND they feel perfectly entitled to your time, your attention, your resources, your services, and your stuff. They deserve it more than you do (your own stuff). If you are not above the Narcissist, you are below him. Anyone above him, in his view, is entitled to their own stuff, because they are special enough to deserve it, and brilliant enough to be capable of handling it. Anyone below the Narcissist in his view, however, is too common, too dumb, too mediocre, too incapable, and just not good enough to deserve to be in control of their own lives, their own stuff, or their own destiny. In fact, anyone who is not above the Narcissist is simply either in the way of the Narcissist's ambitions, or can be used to achieve them. Services that are expected can include praise, admiration, submission, volunteering use of stuff, volunteering any kind of skills, as long as they don't outshine the Narcissist (you can be good at something other than what he's doing), and also financial support.
The Borderline Personality desires control over you because they want your full attention, and they fear abandonment. They also fear that you will be more attractive than them to other people, or that you will find someone more fun or more interesting to hang out with, and leave them behind. Ironically, that's what THEY do; they will ditch you in a New York minute when they are hanging out with someone they find more interesting, or who gives them more of something than you do. More attention, more ego stroking, more adrenaline rushes, more cash, more prestige. Their fear, and attention seeking, drives their anger and their manipulation. They are extremely defensive, and that defensiveness often turns into venom, which they spit at you in various ways. All to keep you within reach, and to keep you from wrecking any manipulations they have going on with anyone else, or even with themselves that they aren't aware of. The Borderline likes to keep people separated, you probably don't have a lot of mutual friends, and if you do, you don't hang out with them much, not together anyway. The Borderline wants to deal with people in a controlled environment.
Both the Narcissist and the Borderline may "punish" you for stepping outside of their control. You may not get the punishment right away, you might get a nasty surprise when you least expect it. Maybe your favorite shirt will disappear; maybe your car will be left unlocked in a bad neighborhood. You might get hit in the back of the head with a shockingly nasty verbal assault while you're happily getting ready for bed, that leaves you feeling like you've been run over by a truck, or dragged behind one. Maybe something else suddenly came up when you are getting ready to go to your brother's wedding. (Well, with the Narcissist, something else probably did come up, like an invitation to go play pool.)
IF you at some point decide you would like to discuss the subject of this relationship where you feel assaulted, controlled, or just sad or unhappy, you will probably not get the healthy response of "Oh I didn't know you felt that way, I'm sorry you are feeling that way, let's talk about it. Let's figure this out." What you will probably get is either a blow-off "I can't talk about this right now" or "We can talk about this later" or "I'm not going to argue with you", or a cold shoulder, complete with crossed arms and turned back, OR you may receive a new, fresh stream of verbal abuses, denying and justifying and defending their own actions, and blaming you for everything under the sun. They are righteous saintly creatures, you are the Enemy. You may even be told you only brought this subject up to make their lives hell... If you keep trying to talk about it, the abuse may escalate, or the loathing may take a turn toward themselves. Basically, the only thing that WILL NOT be talked about is the actual subject you brought up, and there will be no respectful conversation. You can forget about that.
Your needs are not to be viewed as having equal or greater importance than theirs. If you call them, they may not answer; they're too busy, you shouldn't bother them like that. But if they call you and you don't answer, where the hell were you, what the hell were you doing? Because the Narcissist cannot tolerate your petty distractions, and the Borderline is worried that you were doing something to betray them in some way. If you have an emergency, that's your problem. If your family has an emergency, that's THEIR problem. If your child is sick, she's just "trying to get attention" and if you tend to her, you are spoiling her, and just trying to get out of your duty to the Narcissist, or turning your back on the Borderline.
The Narcissist just doesn't have time for your silly problems, and the Borderline's problems must always be much bigger, much worse, than yours.With either of them, your giving time, attention, and emotion to your personal issues is offensive to them. And make sure you don't use up the resources that they might need later (your own resources, that is).
Mistakes! Don't make any. What's that, you're human, you say? Not here. The Narcissist's view of any mistake you make is more evidence that you are of inferior quality. Anything, from typos (even if you type 95 words per minute) to a wrinkle on your shirt, to a missed appointment; all evidence that you are less in their eyes. For them, however, any mistake is just a mistake; and if the hammer misses the nail, it's the hammer's fault. The Borderline also tallies your mistakes, and stores them for future use in defensive arguments, even the ones where they said "oh that's no big deal" at the time. Any time you call them out on something they did wrong, however big or small, and however NOT upset you are about it, they will fire back at you with both barrels. Whether you asked them if they left the ice cream out, or ran over the dog, they will break out the big guns to blast you with your own mistakes, missteps, and often things that you didn't even do. Also, if you bring up something they had done in the past as an example of something you are trying to explain, as a reference point in order to give a clearer picture, they may easily miss your point, misunderstand the discussion altogether, and take it as you "throwing it in their face".
Basically, the Narcissist is controlling more for reasons of offensive domination, and the Borderline is controlling more for defensive reasons. Both will probably hurt you, and both will probably try to justify their actions and try to turn the blame on you for anything and everything. Both do a lot of projection and rationalization , terms definitely worth understanding (even if you're just a regular human bean).
Neither may have any interest in addressing their own issues, or taking responsibility for their own suffering, pain, or behavior. Neither can stand to see their own flaws; the Narcissist can't stand anything that would spoil the image they have created of themselves, and the Borderline has a very hard time with keeping those flaws based in reality; their foibles become horrible failures, their low self esteem becomes self-loathing, their fear becomes terror. The Narcissist is like a Roman God, above all mortals and ruler of peasants, and the Borderline is like a burn victim; if you even look at them wrong you cause them pain, and they thoroughly dismiss the possibility that anyone else could be in as much pain as them, least of all those who should be tending to their wounds. And if you cause them pain for any reason, they feel completely justified in lashing out with as much rage and meanness as comes out of their mouth. A lot like a real burn victim might do, spewing obscenities and screaming at doctors and nurses who are there to save them and heal them, and innocent family and friends who come to visit. As long as they remain wounded, they feel deserving of and entitled to compassion and attention, and carte blanche to forgiveness for any behavior and treatment of others. So the Borderline also may not want to heal, for fear of losing the special status that someone who is wounded is entitled to. The world for both of them is consumed by their own needs, real or perceived.
And yes, a person can harbor traits of both. Healing and recovery is out there, but as the Navi say, "it is hard to fill a cup that is already full." Neither the Narcissist nor the Borderline can stand being seen as anything less than righteous, and both often fear that they will have a finger pointed at them if they seek help. To the Narcissist, no silly psychiatric person could possibly understand them, except for maybe Carl Jung himself, maybe... and to the Borderline who is hyper defensive, going to the psychologist carries the fear of being blamed. And since it is apparent that most, if not all, Borderlines grew up in abusive households, or were abused by another caregiver or authority, their fear is not exactly "crazy", they have been blamed, shamed and punished for things they didn't do too many times. So, they may not be able to wrap their minds around being responsible for their own actions AND NOT getting judged or punished for those actions. Simply analyzing behavioral and emotional patterns in a clinical, objective way may not seem like a real possibility for them.
The Narcissist doesn't give two hens in a coop about what you or a therapist thinks, and the Borderline is already worried about what both you and the therapist are thinking. And already raising hackles in defense, before the first appointment, which may never happen. You may even receive a backlash of passive or outright aggression from the Borderline in response to what they are imagining will happen at the therapist's office. It hasn't actually happened, of course, but they may be churning with real anger at you for what they think you are thinking, or what they imagine will happen.
Unless, of course, the appointment is about "what's wrong" with YOU. And if you're in a relationship of any kind with a Narcissist or a Borderline person, there probably is a good reason for you to keep your therapy appointments, either to deal with the stress of your interactions with them, and/or to find out about co-depency or Borderline symptoms of your own, so you can heal.
In Your Head
It seems as though every time you find something you enjoy doing, somehow someone needs your attention. Every time you find a joke hilarious, someone is there to criticize it and deflate the funny. When you commit yourself to a goal, somehow when you apply yourself fully, you have to stop what you're doing to attend to someone's needs. The shirt you find in the store is a little too long, short, ugly, or flashy; the music you love is not very good, the car you want to buy is not quite practical enough, the friend you get along with well is somehow not quite welcome with someone else in your circle. Whatever you're doing, if it has drawn your full attention, or if it seems to give you real joy, fulfillment, or satisfaction, it is always somehow stopped, stifled, criticized, diverted, or forgotten.
Is it you who is sabotaging all of your happy, all of your forward motion, all of your accomplishment?
Do you really believe that?
Take a closer look at those around you. Watch their behavior, listen to their words. Observe them a bit more clinically than you're used to doing. You might be quite surprised at who is really doing the sabotaging. Watch WHAT they do, what they SAY, and watch their TIMING. Watch them as if you are a scientist observing a group of people you've never met, from a foreign land.
If and when you figure it out, don't be too hard on them, it won't solve your problem. All you can really do is take steps to inoculate yourself against their button pushing and subtle manipulation. Learn to strengthen your boundaries so you don't feel guilt or shame for not catering to their every whim, and learn the difference between healthy relationships and narcissism. If you completely put all of your whims above their real needs, and you forget that they are human beings too, then you are not doing what's best for everyone either. It may take some time to learn the balance, but once you get a handle on it, you'll be able to sail your own ship once again, maybe for the first time. And still be there for the ones you love.
Good voyage.
Is it you who is sabotaging all of your happy, all of your forward motion, all of your accomplishment?
Do you really believe that?
Take a closer look at those around you. Watch their behavior, listen to their words. Observe them a bit more clinically than you're used to doing. You might be quite surprised at who is really doing the sabotaging. Watch WHAT they do, what they SAY, and watch their TIMING. Watch them as if you are a scientist observing a group of people you've never met, from a foreign land.
If and when you figure it out, don't be too hard on them, it won't solve your problem. All you can really do is take steps to inoculate yourself against their button pushing and subtle manipulation. Learn to strengthen your boundaries so you don't feel guilt or shame for not catering to their every whim, and learn the difference between healthy relationships and narcissism. If you completely put all of your whims above their real needs, and you forget that they are human beings too, then you are not doing what's best for everyone either. It may take some time to learn the balance, but once you get a handle on it, you'll be able to sail your own ship once again, maybe for the first time. And still be there for the ones you love.
Good voyage.
Basics
Everyone talks about what is healthy behavior and what isn't, but no one seems to agree on just what that means. Here's a brief guideline I found that is pretty simple and straightforward. As far I'm concerned, healthy behavior comes down to making sure we don't cause problems for other people when we're trying to go about living and getting our needs met. Everything else is personality, and individual beliefs. I personally really believe in helping whoever needs help, within my reasonable capacity.Which does include self sacrifice if the need of the other person warrants it. But the help that I give is of my own volition. If someone is demanding my help, I am not so inclined to drop what I'm doing unless it is literally an actual health issue that requires my actual help. Hypochondria doesn't warrant my self-sacrifice, bleeding from the eyes and ears does.
If I have done my best, to my capacity, and they are demanding help as if I didn't even try, that's a red flag to call someone else and get reinforcements. People who demand help with a tone of resentment are often the same ones who would turn their backs if you needed them, and may also see a person who helps them as a threat, or as "high and mighty". The tone of resentment belies their knowledge of their own nature. I help them anyway, because that's what I think is right, regardless of their level of self-centeredness, but I keep a closer eye on my boundaries and my pockets. Safety first.
Randi Kreger on BPD
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201004/fresh-look-the-many-faces-borderline-disorder
Click that link above to read another one of Randi Kreger's objective, well written blog posts on Borderline Personality Disorder. I love how her point of view is about information GATHERING, not pontificating and claiming to know the end-all of the subject.
Here's an excerpt:
* Alternate between seeing others as completely for them or against them.
* Have a hard time recalling someone's love for them when they're not around.
* Change their opinions depending upon who they're with.
* Alternate between idealizing people and devaluing them.
* Remember situations very differently than other people, or find themselves unable to recall them at all.
* Believe that others are responsible for their actions-or take too much responsibility for the actions of others.
* Seem unwilling to admit to a mistake-or feel that everything that they do is a mistake.
* Base their beliefs on feelings rather than facts.
* Not realize the effects of their behavior on others. <----(my personal favorite...)
* Have trouble observing their own and others' personal limits.
* Rush into relationships based on idealized fantasies of what they would like the other person or the relationship to be.
* Change their expectations in such a way that the other person feels they can never do anything right.
* Have frightening, unpredictable rages that make no logical sense-or have trouble expressing anger at all.
* Physically abuse others, such as slapping, kicking, and scratching them.
* Needlessly create crises or live a chaotic lifestyle.
* Act inconsistently or unpredictably.
* Alternately want to be close to others, then distance themselves.
* Cut people out of their life over issues that seem trivial or overblown.
* Act competent and controlled in some situations but extremely out of control in others.
* Verbally abuse others, criticizing and blaming them to a point where it undermines the other person's confidence in themselves.
* Act in what seems like extreme or controlling ways to get their own needs met.
* Accuse others of doing things they did not do, having feelings they do not feel, or believing things they do not believe.
Click that link above to read another one of Randi Kreger's objective, well written blog posts on Borderline Personality Disorder. I love how her point of view is about information GATHERING, not pontificating and claiming to know the end-all of the subject.
Here's an excerpt:
"Now let's take a closer look at same thoughts, feelings, and actions that are typical of people with BPD in general (not all will apply to your particular situation). These are all, of course, also common in people who don't have BPD.
Borderline Beliefs
A person with BPD might: <----(See how she says "might")* Alternate between seeing others as completely for them or against them.
* Have a hard time recalling someone's love for them when they're not around.
* Change their opinions depending upon who they're with.
* Alternate between idealizing people and devaluing them.
* Remember situations very differently than other people, or find themselves unable to recall them at all.
* Believe that others are responsible for their actions-or take too much responsibility for the actions of others.
* Seem unwilling to admit to a mistake-or feel that everything that they do is a mistake.
* Base their beliefs on feelings rather than facts.
* Not realize the effects of their behavior on others. <----(my personal favorite...)
Borderline Behaviors
A person with BPD might:* Have trouble observing their own and others' personal limits.
* Rush into relationships based on idealized fantasies of what they would like the other person or the relationship to be.
* Change their expectations in such a way that the other person feels they can never do anything right.
* Have frightening, unpredictable rages that make no logical sense-or have trouble expressing anger at all.
* Physically abuse others, such as slapping, kicking, and scratching them.
* Needlessly create crises or live a chaotic lifestyle.
* Act inconsistently or unpredictably.
* Alternately want to be close to others, then distance themselves.
* Cut people out of their life over issues that seem trivial or overblown.
* Act competent and controlled in some situations but extremely out of control in others.
* Verbally abuse others, criticizing and blaming them to a point where it undermines the other person's confidence in themselves.
* Act in what seems like extreme or controlling ways to get their own needs met.
* Accuse others of doing things they did not do, having feelings they do not feel, or believing things they do not believe.
Introvert or Extravert?
Carl Jung had a lot of observations on the subject, which Dr. Stephen Diamond talks about here:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201205/essential-secrets-psychotherapy-jungs-typology-eudaemonology-and-the-elusive-
If you're a musician, especially a songwriter/composer, or an artist or writer, there's a good chance you have wrestled with your own typology. A lot of us are naturally more introverts, but to make a living at what we love to do, we must try to adapt the behavior of an extravert. It can feel like being emotionally strangled at worst, on a good day it can just feel like being on the "wrong" path. It's a double-bind. But it helps, me personally anyway, to know what the underlying cause of the "suffering artist" condition might be from.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evil-deeds/201205/essential-secrets-psychotherapy-jungs-typology-eudaemonology-and-the-elusive-
If you're a musician, especially a songwriter/composer, or an artist or writer, there's a good chance you have wrestled with your own typology. A lot of us are naturally more introverts, but to make a living at what we love to do, we must try to adapt the behavior of an extravert. It can feel like being emotionally strangled at worst, on a good day it can just feel like being on the "wrong" path. It's a double-bind. But it helps, me personally anyway, to know what the underlying cause of the "suffering artist" condition might be from.
Narcissism vs. BPD
I've received a lot of email asking about Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and the difference between that and Emotional Dysregulation or Borderline Personality Disorder.
Randi Kreger, the co-author of Stop Walking On Eggshells, has written a 10 part series Blog on the subject, clearly written, easy to read and to the point.
You can find it here:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201110/what-have-you-done-me-lately-entitlement-key-narcissistic-trait
Randi Kreger, the co-author of Stop Walking On Eggshells, has written a 10 part series Blog on the subject, clearly written, easy to read and to the point.
You can find it here:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-walking-eggshells/201110/what-have-you-done-me-lately-entitlement-key-narcissistic-trait
- I have the perfect right to do or say whatever I want and no one should object.
- My needs have priority, and if others don't like it they just don't understand my superiority.
- If you don't do what I want I will become highly offended, make threats, plead with you, or criticize and blame you. If that upsets you, that's your fault. And please don't bother me with your feelings about it. It upsets me when you don't see yourself as inferior to me.
- Relationships aren't about give and take. They are about me taking and you giving. If you give and give with the hope that you will one day get your needs met, I will string you along as long as I can.
The Black Box In Your Car
DID YOU KNOW?
Event Data Recorders (EDRs) have been voluntarily installed in cars for several years. In fact, VentureBeat reports, at least 64 percent of cars in surveyed in 2005 had an EDR installed, including 100 percent of cars made by General Motors, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Suzuki.
The U.S. Senate has passed a bill requiring all new cars manufactured in the United States be fitted with black box data recorders. Senate Bill 1813 [PDF] was passed by the Senate and is just waiting for approval from the U.S. House of Representatives, InfoWars reports.
For the rest of this article in PCWorld, click here:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/254152/senate_passes_bill_requiring_black_boxes_in_all_new_cars.html
Event Data Recorders (EDRs) have been voluntarily installed in cars for several years. In fact, VentureBeat reports, at least 64 percent of cars in surveyed in 2005 had an EDR installed, including 100 percent of cars made by General Motors, Ford, Isuzu, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Suzuki.
The U.S. Senate has passed a bill requiring all new cars manufactured in the United States be fitted with black box data recorders. Senate Bill 1813 [PDF] was passed by the Senate and is just waiting for approval from the U.S. House of Representatives, InfoWars reports.
For the rest of this article in PCWorld, click here:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/254152/senate_passes_bill_requiring_black_boxes_in_all_new_cars.html
How Do You Know He Is Faithful?
Dr. Oz has some things to say on the subject of unfaithful spouses of the male variety:
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/he-being-faithful#copy
If you are a cheater reading this, and you agree that you were "born to cheat", then you need to TELL your partner, as in like right NOW, and let her have a real life without someone screwing her over. Go have multiple partners, that's your business, but don't LIE about it. It's truly disgusting in a visceral, nauseating, STD way. If your defense is "biology" then you should GET that lying about being monogamous means you are putting another human being's biology at risk, never mind their emotional well-being. Go spread your seed like a freaking dandelion, for all anyone cares, but don't BS about it. Grow some balls for pity's sake.
http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/he-being-faithful#copy
If you are a cheater reading this, and you agree that you were "born to cheat", then you need to TELL your partner, as in like right NOW, and let her have a real life without someone screwing her over. Go have multiple partners, that's your business, but don't LIE about it. It's truly disgusting in a visceral, nauseating, STD way. If your defense is "biology" then you should GET that lying about being monogamous means you are putting another human being's biology at risk, never mind their emotional well-being. Go spread your seed like a freaking dandelion, for all anyone cares, but don't BS about it. Grow some balls for pity's sake.
Why We Crave the Approval of Jerks
A lovely and honest look at why we humans seem to focus on gaining the approval of those who show no interest in giving it, click here:
http://www.thoughtsandramblings.com/?p=1741
My thoughts on the subject are in line with the author's, and I would add (which I did when I shared it elsewhere):
although, in a primate social group in the middle of the dangerous forest, the jerk is often the leader, or approved of by the leader. BECAUSE... if there is a jerk in the tribe/group, he should have been kicked out or at least punished and knocked off his jerk horse. If he is still freely being a jerk, that means he has some kind of power. SO, receiving the approval of this jerk means A) not getting picked on by him and B) not getting ostracized by the group. The group will gang up on you if the leader turns on you. THEREFORE getting approval of a Freely Roaming Jerk might actually be a primate survival instinct. And it is one that is frequently exploited by control freak jerks, and you will notice it works really well on most human beans. (Except of course for those with certain Asperger's or Asperger-like traits, such as not noticing who thinks they are the leader of the group, or the social cues that apparently tip off "Normal Thinkers" into believing that the Jerk has some kind of intrinsic entitlement to "Approve" or "Withhold Approval". We just don't care!)
http://www.thoughtsandramblings.com/?p=1741
My thoughts on the subject are in line with the author's, and I would add (which I did when I shared it elsewhere):
although, in a primate social group in the middle of the dangerous forest, the jerk is often the leader, or approved of by the leader. BECAUSE... if there is a jerk in the tribe/group, he should have been kicked out or at least punished and knocked off his jerk horse. If he is still freely being a jerk, that means he has some kind of power. SO, receiving the approval of this jerk means A) not getting picked on by him and B) not getting ostracized by the group. The group will gang up on you if the leader turns on you. THEREFORE getting approval of a Freely Roaming Jerk might actually be a primate survival instinct. And it is one that is frequently exploited by control freak jerks, and you will notice it works really well on most human beans. (Except of course for those with certain Asperger's or Asperger-like traits, such as not noticing who thinks they are the leader of the group, or the social cues that apparently tip off "Normal Thinkers" into believing that the Jerk has some kind of intrinsic entitlement to "Approve" or "Withhold Approval". We just don't care!)
CHOSEN ONES
Anyone who believes their political party is the "Good" one, the "White Hat", the "Savior Party", the "RIGHTEOUS PARTY", the "INTELLIGENT PARTY", the "ENLIGHTENED ONES", the party who will SAVE THE WORLD... is nothing less than...
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