"The accusation of feminism against any woman who would rather obey God than men gets quite tedious."
~M.Reid
~M.Reid
~I Concur 100% QUITE tedious.
Quivering Daughters Blog
I just found the "Quivering Daughters" Web Log, and it is instantly among my favorites. Well written, well organized, and most importantly from sincere and objective hearts.
A quote and disclaimer:
*Please remember that articles at Quivering Daughters are written primarily to adult women struggling with a fundamentalist or patriocentric upbringing. Bear in mind that some content might be triggering for parents or siblings to read. As a writer in keeping with my audience, it is not to "paint with a broad brush" or "condemn" those who believe differently but to address the concerns of those to whom I write. Thank you for understanding.*
Visit by clicking here:
A quote and disclaimer:
*Please remember that articles at Quivering Daughters are written primarily to adult women struggling with a fundamentalist or patriocentric upbringing. Bear in mind that some content might be triggering for parents or siblings to read. As a writer in keeping with my audience, it is not to "paint with a broad brush" or "condemn" those who believe differently but to address the concerns of those to whom I write. Thank you for understanding.*
Visit by clicking here:
Am I A Bully?
One of the things that happens to us when we
have gone through abuse, whether it was from family, classmates,
workmates, or a partner, is that our subconscious repeats what they said
to us and about us. The insults, the jabs, the put-downs, these things
are not forgotten by the subconscious, but are retained. When we leave
them in there, they settle deeper and become their own mantra, even
though they're not true, telling us we
are a loser, we are not worthy, we are bad, we are ugly, we are
unlikable, we are incapable. We can even believe that all these things
are actually real, and forget that they are things someone else said or implied to
be hurtful.
Eventually we may hear this mantra in our subconscious so often that we believe that people we just met also think these things about us. We no longer see ourselves as we really are, and we think that people who are actually kindhearted are shaming and judging us as well. It becomes harder and harder to see the difference between kindness and arrogance.
When we let this go on without seeking healing, we can start to project all these things onto other people, especially those close to us, especially those who actually care. Because these are the people who feel like they are part of ourselves, so what we feel about ourselves, we extend onto them. If we have the echo of "I am a bad person" in our subconscious, we project that echo onto the other person "you are a bad person, too." Obviously, this will cause all kinds of problems in any relationship, which only serve to re-play the mantra in our heads "I am unlikable".
The reality of our current society is that there are indeed a lot of people who are actually impolite, self-centered, uncaring jerks, we run into them every day it seems. Some of the people in our "friendship" circles turn out to be this way. The problem for those of us who have been abused is learning how to deal with them without letting their behavior reaffirm and magnify the subconscious echoes already in our heads. (That is how bullies so often end up in charge of things, they push buttons in us that other bullies had already implanted and get us to feel confused, feel embarrassed, back down and quit.) Without that mantra in our head "I am not as good", we would not so easily back down or fear putting ourselves out there.
Sometimes we fear our own reaction to bullies so much that we stop ourselves from doing anything that would require dealing with them. We can become reclusive, even agoraphobic. Sometimes when we start fearing our own loss of control, or when we build up a huge amount of resentment and anger, we may then take the next step into identifying OURSELVES as one of the BULLIES. When we do this, we begin to feel accused and attacked by anyone who talks about abuse, counseling, and healing. We have put ourselves in the "abuser" role, and forget that we were actually the target of abusers. Identifying ourselves as NOT a "Victim" is about Ego protection, and Ego protection is almost always due to having been bullied by someone either in the past or in the present, or both.
If we are living in a Bully Culture (most of us are in the U.S.) then we may protect ourselves by identifying ourselves as a "Bad Ass" so we won't get targeted for yet MORE bullying. And if we identify ourselves as "Bad Ass", we deny ourselves help and healing, and we may end up living inside a thick, hard, protective shell that's very, very small, for years, even for the rest of our lives. We only trust others who are "Bad Ass" too, which means we end up with bullies for friends. We often actually attack anyone who offers help and healing to ourselves OR to OTHERS. We decide that "Victims Are Weak" which of course is horse sh**, and we know it, but we must adapt this false stance to fit in with the others who are pretending to be "Bad Ass". We tragically end up forgetting that standing up against abusive people is the ultimate sign of strength, not BEING one of them. Anyone can BE one of them, all it takes is a little acting and the right clothes. (A person who is truly a "Bad Ass" does not feel the need for anyone to notice.) Real strength lays in resisting this impulse and finding help to heal the echoes in our subconscious that keep telling us we don't deserve a good and happy life. We can make them go away with the right help, we can rewrite and undo that mantra that someone else put in our heads.
"Dr. Phil" did a quick illustration on his show about the echoes implanted in our subconscious by others. This is Meghan, she is only 15. She already believes the echoes, but she has not yet forgotten where they came from completely. Her family reconfirms these echoes with their cold and judgmental treatment of her (more bullies). Luckily, her mother has enough awareness to see she needs outside help. You can find it here:
Meghan's Echoes
Eventually we may hear this mantra in our subconscious so often that we believe that people we just met also think these things about us. We no longer see ourselves as we really are, and we think that people who are actually kindhearted are shaming and judging us as well. It becomes harder and harder to see the difference between kindness and arrogance.
When we let this go on without seeking healing, we can start to project all these things onto other people, especially those close to us, especially those who actually care. Because these are the people who feel like they are part of ourselves, so what we feel about ourselves, we extend onto them. If we have the echo of "I am a bad person" in our subconscious, we project that echo onto the other person "you are a bad person, too." Obviously, this will cause all kinds of problems in any relationship, which only serve to re-play the mantra in our heads "I am unlikable".
The reality of our current society is that there are indeed a lot of people who are actually impolite, self-centered, uncaring jerks, we run into them every day it seems. Some of the people in our "friendship" circles turn out to be this way. The problem for those of us who have been abused is learning how to deal with them without letting their behavior reaffirm and magnify the subconscious echoes already in our heads. (That is how bullies so often end up in charge of things, they push buttons in us that other bullies had already implanted and get us to feel confused, feel embarrassed, back down and quit.) Without that mantra in our head "I am not as good", we would not so easily back down or fear putting ourselves out there.
Sometimes we fear our own reaction to bullies so much that we stop ourselves from doing anything that would require dealing with them. We can become reclusive, even agoraphobic. Sometimes when we start fearing our own loss of control, or when we build up a huge amount of resentment and anger, we may then take the next step into identifying OURSELVES as one of the BULLIES. When we do this, we begin to feel accused and attacked by anyone who talks about abuse, counseling, and healing. We have put ourselves in the "abuser" role, and forget that we were actually the target of abusers. Identifying ourselves as NOT a "Victim" is about Ego protection, and Ego protection is almost always due to having been bullied by someone either in the past or in the present, or both.
If we are living in a Bully Culture (most of us are in the U.S.) then we may protect ourselves by identifying ourselves as a "Bad Ass" so we won't get targeted for yet MORE bullying. And if we identify ourselves as "Bad Ass", we deny ourselves help and healing, and we may end up living inside a thick, hard, protective shell that's very, very small, for years, even for the rest of our lives. We only trust others who are "Bad Ass" too, which means we end up with bullies for friends. We often actually attack anyone who offers help and healing to ourselves OR to OTHERS. We decide that "Victims Are Weak" which of course is horse sh**, and we know it, but we must adapt this false stance to fit in with the others who are pretending to be "Bad Ass". We tragically end up forgetting that standing up against abusive people is the ultimate sign of strength, not BEING one of them. Anyone can BE one of them, all it takes is a little acting and the right clothes. (A person who is truly a "Bad Ass" does not feel the need for anyone to notice.) Real strength lays in resisting this impulse and finding help to heal the echoes in our subconscious that keep telling us we don't deserve a good and happy life. We can make them go away with the right help, we can rewrite and undo that mantra that someone else put in our heads.
"Dr. Phil" did a quick illustration on his show about the echoes implanted in our subconscious by others. This is Meghan, she is only 15. She already believes the echoes, but she has not yet forgotten where they came from completely. Her family reconfirms these echoes with their cold and judgmental treatment of her (more bullies). Luckily, her mother has enough awareness to see she needs outside help. You can find it here:
Meghan's Echoes
MYTH: Narcissists Are Highly Intelligent
Narcissist Myth: "They are extremely intelligent."
Reality: High IQ does not a Narcissist make, and in fact it more often than not can bolster an individual's understanding of ethical and courteous treatment of all people.
There are Narcissists who have high IQs. However, having even a "genius level IQ" does not mean a person possesses Global Intelligence. In other words, you can be a brilliant mathematician and be dumb as a rock in other things. Global Intelligence means you have high function AND interconnectedness between the different parts of the brain. You might still only be a "genius" in one or two areas, but those are usually because that's where your passions lie, where your heart is in.
Global Intelligence means you can integrate all kinds of things, including how to treat other people and WHY civil and courteous behavior is absolutely essential to a healthy society, healthy family, healthy individual, healthy life. Ethics and respectful social courtesy and personal responsibility are quite mathematical, very logical, and very important; there is nothing "trivial" about them, or unnecessary. Only a person who is not very good at logic would treat others with the disdain and disrespect that Narcissists hand out on a regular basis.
A Narcissist with a high IQ can not have Global Intelligence, so their "genius" can only, ONLY, lay in their field of focus, and without ethics, their "genius" is often muddied or even obliterated by a lack of understanding of the actual implications and effects of what they are trying to accomplish. He might be the best violin-maker that ever lived, but he is going to lose paying customers, drive away business, and lose any assistant talented enough to work with him due to his behavior. There is a good chance also that instead of learning from anyone else who is a talented violin-maker and enjoying the camaraderie of a like-mind, he will instead try to undermine them. Also, the high IQ Narcissist is applying (wasting) much of his brain power to garnering power and recognition for himself instead of putting his focus on his work, and so the work always suffers. He usually achieves mediocrity, which serves to increase his Narcissistic rage. (Antonio Salieri in Amadeus).
There are plenty of Narcissists with lower IQs as well. Where a person applies their focus is where they "get good at" stuff. So if a person with a lower IQ has focused on social manipulation since they were in their youth, they will have achieved expertise by the time they reach adulthood. As one Narcissist said to me several years ago, "Genius is as genius does."
(I'm sure he made that up on his own.)
Reality: High IQ does not a Narcissist make, and in fact it more often than not can bolster an individual's understanding of ethical and courteous treatment of all people.
There are Narcissists who have high IQs. However, having even a "genius level IQ" does not mean a person possesses Global Intelligence. In other words, you can be a brilliant mathematician and be dumb as a rock in other things. Global Intelligence means you have high function AND interconnectedness between the different parts of the brain. You might still only be a "genius" in one or two areas, but those are usually because that's where your passions lie, where your heart is in.
Global Intelligence means you can integrate all kinds of things, including how to treat other people and WHY civil and courteous behavior is absolutely essential to a healthy society, healthy family, healthy individual, healthy life. Ethics and respectful social courtesy and personal responsibility are quite mathematical, very logical, and very important; there is nothing "trivial" about them, or unnecessary. Only a person who is not very good at logic would treat others with the disdain and disrespect that Narcissists hand out on a regular basis.
A Narcissist with a high IQ can not have Global Intelligence, so their "genius" can only, ONLY, lay in their field of focus, and without ethics, their "genius" is often muddied or even obliterated by a lack of understanding of the actual implications and effects of what they are trying to accomplish. He might be the best violin-maker that ever lived, but he is going to lose paying customers, drive away business, and lose any assistant talented enough to work with him due to his behavior. There is a good chance also that instead of learning from anyone else who is a talented violin-maker and enjoying the camaraderie of a like-mind, he will instead try to undermine them. Also, the high IQ Narcissist is applying (wasting) much of his brain power to garnering power and recognition for himself instead of putting his focus on his work, and so the work always suffers. He usually achieves mediocrity, which serves to increase his Narcissistic rage. (Antonio Salieri in Amadeus).
There are plenty of Narcissists with lower IQs as well. Where a person applies their focus is where they "get good at" stuff. So if a person with a lower IQ has focused on social manipulation since they were in their youth, they will have achieved expertise by the time they reach adulthood. As one Narcissist said to me several years ago, "Genius is as genius does."
(I'm sure he made that up on his own.)
Common Gossipers
Gossip is something that some people do in order to make themselves feel innocent, by devaluing someone else. It is narcissistic when anyone does it, but the level of maliciousness escalates with the level of narcissism in an individual. The target is often someone who they feel challenged or intimidated by, someone who they desire control over, or someone who they have treated poorly and are seeking justification from someone else, as if a person can "deserve" poor treatment.
Gossip is often used to destroy a person's credibility, and as an attempt to make sure that others will not see them in a positive light, thereby guarding against friendships and connections made without the gossiper's control.
They are not talking about the person or the situation to find a way to resolve conflict or improve the relationship, they are seeking someone to agree with them in painting this person as "bad", so they can be the "good" one, and above reproach.
(If the person they are gossiping to suggests a solution, or that it might not be the other person's "fault", they will argue, change the subject, or end the discussion. They aren't seeking solutions, they are seeking a gossip partner.)
The difference between a run-of-the-mill gossip who does it out of a lack of maturity and awareness, and a "Narcissist" gossip, is that the Narcissist is purposely using gossip as a tool to isolate the target from any support and friendship from others, and to destroy the person's reputation. While gossip is always wrong, and always about the person's ego who is doing the gossiping, it is from a lack of maturity. But when a Narcissist is doing it, it is a weapon that can actually cause major damage. The target is often someone close to them, like a "best friend", "partner", son or daughter, or other family member. It can also be a person who makes the Narcissist feel "outshined". There is a strategy to the gossip, they will not stop until they have convinced others that the target is an unworthy, unstable, or bad person, and they are reasonably sure that the target will not be welcomed or accepted. The goal is to get others to REJECT the person, and also garner sympathy and high opinions for themselves.
Most Gossipers seem to share certain personality traits, such as:
Gossipers, whether they have NPD or not, may have been a target of gossiping in the past. They may have grown up around adults who gossiped, and may have not been taught what is wrong with it, or why it is harmful. They may think that's the way people "stay ahead of the game", and don't know that the whole world is not playing "the game". They seem also not to realize that anyone can become a target, even themselves. The average Gossiper talks about whoever is not in the room, including the person they were just gossiping with.
(Comment: It is amazing to observers how easily others buy right into this process, and how so few seem to recognize it or have the courage to stop it from hurting someone.)
Gossip is often used to destroy a person's credibility, and as an attempt to make sure that others will not see them in a positive light, thereby guarding against friendships and connections made without the gossiper's control.
They are not talking about the person or the situation to find a way to resolve conflict or improve the relationship, they are seeking someone to agree with them in painting this person as "bad", so they can be the "good" one, and above reproach.
(If the person they are gossiping to suggests a solution, or that it might not be the other person's "fault", they will argue, change the subject, or end the discussion. They aren't seeking solutions, they are seeking a gossip partner.)
The difference between a run-of-the-mill gossip who does it out of a lack of maturity and awareness, and a "Narcissist" gossip, is that the Narcissist is purposely using gossip as a tool to isolate the target from any support and friendship from others, and to destroy the person's reputation. While gossip is always wrong, and always about the person's ego who is doing the gossiping, it is from a lack of maturity. But when a Narcissist is doing it, it is a weapon that can actually cause major damage. The target is often someone close to them, like a "best friend", "partner", son or daughter, or other family member. It can also be a person who makes the Narcissist feel "outshined". There is a strategy to the gossip, they will not stop until they have convinced others that the target is an unworthy, unstable, or bad person, and they are reasonably sure that the target will not be welcomed or accepted. The goal is to get others to REJECT the person, and also garner sympathy and high opinions for themselves.
Most Gossipers seem to share certain personality traits, such as:
- a high level of interest in what others are doing
- a propensity to interpret the actions of others in the most negative light
- a belief that every single thing their target does is planned and "on purpose"
- a belief that their target has more than their fair share of something (success, looks, popularity, money)
- a desire to prove that they are "good", "innocent", or "important", possibly due to being bullied in their past
- a lack of awareness about their effect on others, for good or for ill
- they may feel like they are not noticed or accepted by others unless they are calling attention to themselves or to someone else.
- a belief that everyone has an agenda against others, and that everyone gossips, and that all discussion about other people is gossip. (They don't understand the vast difference between gossiping, venting, and seeking support or understanding. They don't believe that there are people who can listen without judging, because they don't.)
- a lack of awareness of a "bigger picture", and how human beings affect one another's well-being.
Gossipers, whether they have NPD or not, may have been a target of gossiping in the past. They may have grown up around adults who gossiped, and may have not been taught what is wrong with it, or why it is harmful. They may think that's the way people "stay ahead of the game", and don't know that the whole world is not playing "the game". They seem also not to realize that anyone can become a target, even themselves. The average Gossiper talks about whoever is not in the room, including the person they were just gossiping with.
(Comment: It is amazing to observers how easily others buy right into this process, and how so few seem to recognize it or have the courage to stop it from hurting someone.)
Experts, Leaders and Gurus
We decide we know what kind of people are "wise" and "worthy", who knows things and who doesn't, who is respect-worthy and who is not, long before we are mature enough to actually see others in the light of reality.
Women Don't Like Nice Guys
The Gatekeeper Narcissist
A hallmark of a Narcissist is being the self-appointed "gatekeeper" of a group, club, community or workplace, but not in a good way. While the "gatekeeper" position is often a normal part of many groups, an integral function is to welcome new people genuinely and openly; rejecting new people or current members is rare and only done when a person is found to be actually dangerous.
The Gatekeeper Narcissist does not welcome one and all to join, even if the group is supposed to be open and public. Only those who do not threaten the ego or personal agenda of this person are welcomed into the group. For example, anyone who the gatekeeper narcissist believes is more talented, smarter, better looking, nicer, or more charismatic than he or she is will be kept out of the group with any means possible, or made to look bad to everyone else if they do get past them. Anyone who has seen through their agenda will definitely be kept out, even if they have no ill intent. This rejection will be fictionalized to anyone who asks; it will be said that the person is undesirable in some way; they are too weird, slutty, stuck-up, untalented, prima dona, unworthy in some way; the nastier the better; it has nothing to do with reality. This person could be as kind and humble as Mother Theresa, but will be painted by the Gatekeeper Narcissist as a "rotten apple" somehow.
The preferred method is directly discouraging a person by treating them with disdain and arrogance, sending a "message" directly to the person that they are "unwanted". This is often done by only one or two people, but to the target it can be daunting, and there is no way to know if the whole group is similarly arrogant and cold. (Of course, half the time the rest of the members have no idea why this person stays away from the group, and to the Gatekeeper's delight, they often assume that the person either was not interested, or didn't like it.)
It is a rare person that ever stands up to a Gatekeeper Narcissist, because doing so often results in major drama, and whoever the Narcissists sycophants are will turn on the whistleblower. People seem to know instinctively that standing up to a Narcissist who has the smallest amount of influence will enrage them, and he or she will trash them to kingdom come. Only the bravest of us will risk the drama that is sure to follow. Unfortunately, most of the time the Narcissist Gatekeeper is left in his or her "position" because those who are aware of them don't want to deal with the fallout.
The Gatekeeper Narcissist does not welcome one and all to join, even if the group is supposed to be open and public. Only those who do not threaten the ego or personal agenda of this person are welcomed into the group. For example, anyone who the gatekeeper narcissist believes is more talented, smarter, better looking, nicer, or more charismatic than he or she is will be kept out of the group with any means possible, or made to look bad to everyone else if they do get past them. Anyone who has seen through their agenda will definitely be kept out, even if they have no ill intent. This rejection will be fictionalized to anyone who asks; it will be said that the person is undesirable in some way; they are too weird, slutty, stuck-up, untalented, prima dona, unworthy in some way; the nastier the better; it has nothing to do with reality. This person could be as kind and humble as Mother Theresa, but will be painted by the Gatekeeper Narcissist as a "rotten apple" somehow.
The preferred method is directly discouraging a person by treating them with disdain and arrogance, sending a "message" directly to the person that they are "unwanted". This is often done by only one or two people, but to the target it can be daunting, and there is no way to know if the whole group is similarly arrogant and cold. (Of course, half the time the rest of the members have no idea why this person stays away from the group, and to the Gatekeeper's delight, they often assume that the person either was not interested, or didn't like it.)
It is a rare person that ever stands up to a Gatekeeper Narcissist, because doing so often results in major drama, and whoever the Narcissists sycophants are will turn on the whistleblower. People seem to know instinctively that standing up to a Narcissist who has the smallest amount of influence will enrage them, and he or she will trash them to kingdom come. Only the bravest of us will risk the drama that is sure to follow. Unfortunately, most of the time the Narcissist Gatekeeper is left in his or her "position" because those who are aware of them don't want to deal with the fallout.
On Suicide
You can bet you have a purpose.
Dont let these people have another beautiful casualty!
Just remember even if it's just you and God in this lifetime - you STILL have enough to SHINE!!!
~ANATILAL
Can Men Or Women Detect Manipulators
Answer from author, support counselor and site administrator of
After Narcissistic Abuse There Is Light And Love
"Im going to answer from personal experience.
1. When I was first good narc bait 5 years ago to the narcissist that abused me, I was NOT AWARE that what he was doing to me was manipulation. Why? I had blind spots. At the time, I was vulnerable to the ways he worked me, probably because I needed / wanted to hear that I was beautiful, smart, funny and lovable. I had my own "ego issues" that allowed me to be stroked and exploited.
Now that I have plugged my "worth holes" and died to my own ego - Im not vulnerable to being puffed up. When you don't need it, you aren't manipulated by it.
Generalizing, I see others who have the same issues to be manipulatable without being aware that it's happening. I see women and men who feel bad about themselves, or doubt their self worth or have ego problems (thinking they're all that) who ARE manipulated by others without realizing it.
2. I dealt with this experience first hand - Men NOT being able to SEE when a woman is is sabotaging another woman. Here's why I believe this is difficult. The woman I knew that did this to me, is a narcissistic individual. She is overly flirtacious, inappropriately sexual and constantly pandering to men's egos with her sexuality. We worked together. She felt jealous whenever I'd get any attention. Once when a man she was interested in told me I looked like a dark haired Cameron Diaz, she not only ran me down to him - trying to make it look like there was some reason not to find me attractive, but then she came to me and gave me a rant about how she couldnt trust women, how I wasn't a good friend to her if I didnt text him immediately and tell him what a piece of s*it he was for "hitting on me".
Ultimately - he apologized to her profusely for ever finding me attractive as he was worried that she'd not sleep with him if he didnt do so. (that was my thought anyway)
A second instance was at a New Years Eve party last year. She and I went to my friend's party. I had a date there. I had another friend, a male, who was also friends with the host of the party who I was trying to get to stop by so that we could all share in a New Years toast together. The narc girl knew that I went to the bathroom to have a conversation with my guy friend where it was a little quieter. While in the bathroom, I overheard my date go up to the narc girl and inquire where I was. I heard her say, "Ohhh she's primping in the bathroom." He said, "Boy she's been in there a long time." To which she replied..."I know! She does this ALL THE TIME". Trying to portray me as someone who's so worried about my looks that I was in the bathroom for an inordinate amount of time- when that wasn't even the case and she knew it.
Bottom line, in both cases - an awkward social encounter involved men manipulated by her "baby talking voice" and over exposed fake breasts and sex talk that they had ZERO clue they were being drawn into. I would have ended up looking like the one with the problem had I addressed it - so I cut her off socially. I stopped being her friend. It just wasn't worth any enjoyment I got from having a "fun girlfriend" to pal around with.
3. Regarding men edging out other men with manipulation - I have witnessed the narcissist in my case- cutting other men down, telling me that the other man only wanted me for sex, emasculating him or putting down his education, upbringing, intelligence etc. undermining friendships, etc. The way he did it was effective in the sense that he was able to make me doubt others and then isolate myself from them. He did this out of his own insecurity but because I was afraid of his reactions and didnt want to hurt his feelings, I responded to his words by moving away from those men.
Fake Friends?
When I am upset with someone about their lack
of friendship, support, or respect toward me, the first thing I ask is
"how much friendship, support, or respect have I shown them, really and
truly? What is the actual history, and not just the one in my head right
now?" After enough soul searching, a clearer picture is usually
revealed. Sometimes it shows that I am expecting more from them than I give,
or forgetting the support they have given me. Sometimes it shows that
they are just living their life with no ill intention toward anyone, and
I am just feeling overwhelmed. Still, sometimes it shows that I am
expecting friendship from a person who has already shown that they're
not capable of friendship, support, or respect, or that they haven't
shown any of these things toward me specifically, only toward others.
Whatever the picture reveals, it is closer to reality which helps me to better navigate my surroundings and relationships, and manage my feelings.
Whatever the picture reveals, it is closer to reality which helps me to better navigate my surroundings and relationships, and manage my feelings.
Enlightenment
The first step on the path to enlightenment is the hardest; it is to simply listen, and hear.
And when you have done so, go to the beginning and listen again, and hear what you missed.
When you have mastered this first step, you will have truly begun.
Your second step is to listen longer, and to hear more.
And when you have done so, go to the beginning and listen again, and hear what you missed.
When you have mastered this first step, you will have truly begun.
Your second step is to listen longer, and to hear more.
Control Issues, Tuning Out
"Tuning out" is what those with control issues do on a daily basis.
It is nearly impossible to have a direct conversation about anything relational with a person who has control issues. Some people have control issues because they are overwhelmed, defensive, and feel like they are being controlled by others. Some have control issues because they developed it as a coping skill during childhood. Some have OCD or some form of autism that causes them to need to have things a certain way or they feel very anxious. Still others simply feel compelled or entitled to be in control, and will do anything to maintain that position, regardless of the effect it has on others.
To have a direct, real, reciprocal conversation with them about a real subject, where you speak and they actually can hear what you say, and then they respond to what you actually said in a conversational tone, can be nearly impossible. When the subject has to do with their actions or the relationship between you, they will usually try to change the subject, sidestep the topic, leave or hang up, or derail the entire conversation by becoming argumentative or hostile.
Their thoughts are running while you are speaking. They do not hear your words, they don't listen to your words, they don't try to understand the concept that you are communicating. They don't CARE what you have to say; their only concern is that you pay attention to what THEY say, or do what they want you to do.
For a controller, hearing and truly taking in another point of view that is different from their own is tantamount to listening to nails on a chalkboard. If you are not saying something that makes them feel good, even if it's just neutral, they will tune it out. This is why they cannot hear you when you speak. Why they cannot have a discussion about anything they don't initiate, already agree with, or makes them feel comfortable.
When a person who has control issues replies to you, it is often completely off topic, or an entirely NEW topic. They will speak as if you had not spoken at all. They will even do things like repeat what you said, as if they had thought of it, with no acknowledgment that you were actually the one who said it. (They heard the words and simply assimilated them into their own thought stream, without listening TO YOU.) They may ask you a question and just ignore you when you answer, and talk right over you. They may change the subject so frequently and quickly, and bounce from one topic to another so fast that that there is no way to even reply. They are talking to talk, not to converse. They want you to hear THEIR words, THEIR thoughts, THEIR feelings, THEIR ideas, but they really have no interest in hearing yours.
Your thoughts, feelings, needs and wants are insignificant to a controller, nearly non-existent. Their world is as if they are the only real person in it, even if they think they love or care for you. They won't read what you write, and they won't hear what you say, and they won't respond directly to anything from you. They can't, they didn't hear what you said.
The only exception to this is when they want to tell you that you are wrong, which can be very frustrating or heartbreaking, since it's the only time they seem to hear you.
Ironically, the person who has control issues can feel very, very frustrated, lonely, or rejected because they don't feel HEARD, or they feel like all you do is disagree with them or dismiss them (unless they are a Malignant Narcissistic Sociopath who is doing all the control behaviors on purpose.) They are often unaware that they are so adamant in being heard that they have stopped listening to others altogether. You could ask them 50 questions and they may not answer a single one; they will just keep saying the same thing as before, as if you had not asked a single one. You could write them a letter outlining point by point the things that are on your mind and in your heart, and they may not acknowledge a single one of them; you may as well have not even written it.
The one thing that can help in dealing with a person who has control issues, (if they are NOT a Narcissist or Sociopath), is knowing that they most likely really can't help it at the moment. They are doing it to protect themselves in some way that they themselves probably don't understand. Or, they learned it in childhood and don't realize that their communication habits are robbing them of rich and wonderful experiences. Most people with control issues do not seek help, and become extremely defensive if someone requests for them to do anything to change their control habits. They may not ever learn better communication or interaction skills, but those around them can learn how to detach and see it more objectively. When a person with control issues ignores what I say, I know it's not my fault; "shortcomings" of mine did not cause them to do so. I can let go of the feeling that I did something wrong, or that I am not "enough" of a person.
It is nearly impossible to have a direct conversation about anything relational with a person who has control issues. Some people have control issues because they are overwhelmed, defensive, and feel like they are being controlled by others. Some have control issues because they developed it as a coping skill during childhood. Some have OCD or some form of autism that causes them to need to have things a certain way or they feel very anxious. Still others simply feel compelled or entitled to be in control, and will do anything to maintain that position, regardless of the effect it has on others.
To have a direct, real, reciprocal conversation with them about a real subject, where you speak and they actually can hear what you say, and then they respond to what you actually said in a conversational tone, can be nearly impossible. When the subject has to do with their actions or the relationship between you, they will usually try to change the subject, sidestep the topic, leave or hang up, or derail the entire conversation by becoming argumentative or hostile.
Their thoughts are running while you are speaking. They do not hear your words, they don't listen to your words, they don't try to understand the concept that you are communicating. They don't CARE what you have to say; their only concern is that you pay attention to what THEY say, or do what they want you to do.
For a controller, hearing and truly taking in another point of view that is different from their own is tantamount to listening to nails on a chalkboard. If you are not saying something that makes them feel good, even if it's just neutral, they will tune it out. This is why they cannot hear you when you speak. Why they cannot have a discussion about anything they don't initiate, already agree with, or makes them feel comfortable.
When a person who has control issues replies to you, it is often completely off topic, or an entirely NEW topic. They will speak as if you had not spoken at all. They will even do things like repeat what you said, as if they had thought of it, with no acknowledgment that you were actually the one who said it. (They heard the words and simply assimilated them into their own thought stream, without listening TO YOU.) They may ask you a question and just ignore you when you answer, and talk right over you. They may change the subject so frequently and quickly, and bounce from one topic to another so fast that that there is no way to even reply. They are talking to talk, not to converse. They want you to hear THEIR words, THEIR thoughts, THEIR feelings, THEIR ideas, but they really have no interest in hearing yours.
Your thoughts, feelings, needs and wants are insignificant to a controller, nearly non-existent. Their world is as if they are the only real person in it, even if they think they love or care for you. They won't read what you write, and they won't hear what you say, and they won't respond directly to anything from you. They can't, they didn't hear what you said.
The only exception to this is when they want to tell you that you are wrong, which can be very frustrating or heartbreaking, since it's the only time they seem to hear you.
Ironically, the person who has control issues can feel very, very frustrated, lonely, or rejected because they don't feel HEARD, or they feel like all you do is disagree with them or dismiss them (unless they are a Malignant Narcissistic Sociopath who is doing all the control behaviors on purpose.) They are often unaware that they are so adamant in being heard that they have stopped listening to others altogether. You could ask them 50 questions and they may not answer a single one; they will just keep saying the same thing as before, as if you had not asked a single one. You could write them a letter outlining point by point the things that are on your mind and in your heart, and they may not acknowledge a single one of them; you may as well have not even written it.
The one thing that can help in dealing with a person who has control issues, (if they are NOT a Narcissist or Sociopath), is knowing that they most likely really can't help it at the moment. They are doing it to protect themselves in some way that they themselves probably don't understand. Or, they learned it in childhood and don't realize that their communication habits are robbing them of rich and wonderful experiences. Most people with control issues do not seek help, and become extremely defensive if someone requests for them to do anything to change their control habits. They may not ever learn better communication or interaction skills, but those around them can learn how to detach and see it more objectively. When a person with control issues ignores what I say, I know it's not my fault; "shortcomings" of mine did not cause them to do so. I can let go of the feeling that I did something wrong, or that I am not "enough" of a person.
Tom, Get Your Plane Right On Time
Tom, get your plane right on time.
I know your part'll go fine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IwYQ1Vqf_4
Brain Doings
What can I do today to feel better? What can I do today to help someone else feel better, or to help? What can I avoid doing that might bring someone else sadness, trouble, or pain? Do I have domination, retaliation, or gain at the expense of others in mind, or do I have well-being and good will for others and myself in mind?
Overwhelmed
When the burden, pain, or fear we carry is
great, we can become unable to differentiate our friends from our
enemies. We can forget that others carry their own burdens, some greater
than ours. We can project blame onto whomever comes close, making those
who would respect us into enemies, like a wounded dog who snaps at the
veterinarian. Our vision becomes clouded and our thoughts become
overwhelmed with the stress of our
burdens, and we can drive away those who mean us good will, and let in
those who mean us ill, just because one seems stronger than the other to
our blurred eyes.
It is when our burdens are greatest that it is most important to be still. To stop and readjust our eyes, let our thoughts settle, and unravel the tangles of our emotions. Stop and look around in peace and calm acknowledgement at where we are, and who is near, and what is actually happening. Care for our bodies, spirit, and heart, and remember the gentle creatures as we were so born.
It is when our burdens are greatest that it is most important to be still. To stop and readjust our eyes, let our thoughts settle, and unravel the tangles of our emotions. Stop and look around in peace and calm acknowledgement at where we are, and who is near, and what is actually happening. Care for our bodies, spirit, and heart, and remember the gentle creatures as we were so born.
Expectations Of Acceptance
We humans only want to hear what we expect to hear from who we expect to hear it from.
It makes us feel warm inside when a Dad throws a baseball or teaches us to use a hammer,
when a Mom bakes cookies or mends our scrapes.
It makes us feel secure when a husband fixes a broken lamp or takes the driver's seat,
when a wife grows flowers or cleans the house.
It makes us feel comfortable when a repair man shows up to fix the plumbing,
or our doctor's nurse is a woman.
It makes us feel unchallenged when a man is the boss,
and a woman is an assistant.
It makes us feel excited when men play the instruments,
and women sing.
It makes us feel safe when a man speaks words of intellect,
and a woman speaks words of comfort.
All of these good feelings tell us that the world is as we know it, and as we want it to be.
But... all of these feelings are about US, what makes US feel normal, what gives US a feeling of status quo. What about the feelings of OTHER people around us? What about THEIR feelings, THEIR reality, THEIR actual and real abilities, talents, aspirations, dreams and goals?
Why do so many parents deny their sons and daughters education about things that are real and wonderful, or essential for daily living, just because they were born a certain way? We know it's wrong, now, to do that to a child based on race or other physical traits, so why haven't we learned that it's wrong to do that to a child based on gender? Why do so many people only listen to one kind of person about one thing, but not another?
Why do we applaud one kind of person for doing something, and denigrate another for doing the very same thing?
Why is it more important to us that other people play the roles that WE want them to play, instead of being supportive and applauding people for doing what THEY want to do?
Expectations and denials... they are handicaps to our vision, and our acceptance of others for the magnificent creatures they really are.
It makes us feel warm inside when a Dad throws a baseball or teaches us to use a hammer,
when a Mom bakes cookies or mends our scrapes.
It makes us feel secure when a husband fixes a broken lamp or takes the driver's seat,
when a wife grows flowers or cleans the house.
It makes us feel comfortable when a repair man shows up to fix the plumbing,
or our doctor's nurse is a woman.
It makes us feel unchallenged when a man is the boss,
and a woman is an assistant.
It makes us feel excited when men play the instruments,
and women sing.
It makes us feel safe when a man speaks words of intellect,
and a woman speaks words of comfort.
All of these good feelings tell us that the world is as we know it, and as we want it to be.
But... all of these feelings are about US, what makes US feel normal, what gives US a feeling of status quo. What about the feelings of OTHER people around us? What about THEIR feelings, THEIR reality, THEIR actual and real abilities, talents, aspirations, dreams and goals?
Why do so many parents deny their sons and daughters education about things that are real and wonderful, or essential for daily living, just because they were born a certain way? We know it's wrong, now, to do that to a child based on race or other physical traits, so why haven't we learned that it's wrong to do that to a child based on gender? Why do so many people only listen to one kind of person about one thing, but not another?
Why do we applaud one kind of person for doing something, and denigrate another for doing the very same thing?
Why is it more important to us that other people play the roles that WE want them to play, instead of being supportive and applauding people for doing what THEY want to do?
Expectations and denials... they are handicaps to our vision, and our acceptance of others for the magnificent creatures they really are.
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