Clique Makers: Part 1
The difference between Cliques and Friendship Groups is control. One is based on control, and the other has no interest in control.
When people are in a group or a class because of a common interest, they are all there for the same reason, and should all be equally welcome, and equally welcome to participate fully. Narcissists however, often bring the drama.
Exclusion, not Inclusion, is the main function of a Clique.
A person does not have to be full-blown NPD to make cliques, just enough narcissism to find joy in creating a subgroup within the group where they get to be the Leader, and include or exclude people based on their Judgment... usually, really, based on how much the Clique-Leader(s) believes a person will follow their agenda of exclusion. The willingness to exclude and demean others is the main requirement.
"We" are above "Them" is the Clique mantra.
Clique-makers bring drama into a situation by creating a "hierarchy". They will try to turn any place where there are humans into a social soup of "In Crowd" and "Out Crowd". Of course if the actual leader of the group is a Clique-maker (like a professor, coach, or manager) the drama is through the roof. However that does not need to be the case, Cliques are made all the time within larger groups, often hidden from the real leader of the group.
A person who is fair-minded, kind-hearted, with strong boundaries and original thought will usually not be included in a Clique. When they are, they will only be included until they make noises of disagreement, stand up for someone who is being treated unfairly, or until they "outshine" the Clique-Leader(s) in some way. Then they will be rejected forthwith, even shunned.
When there is a Clique happening, whoever does not fit the parameters of the Clique will be excluded purposely, and treated as if they are not worthy of common courtesy and respect. Obvious examples of this behavior can be found all over modern culture, and can be found in stories throughout recorded history. Large and small scale Cliques have caused terrible problems for humans throughout the ages.
Cliques are different than friend-groups. A subgroup of natural friends who happens to be in the larger group does not exclude people, judge people as "less worthy" than they are, or make it known that certain people are Not Liked.
Natural friends voluntary come together on their own, there is no Leader (or co-Leader) who gets to decide who "WE" don't like, or orchestrate what everyone else does all the time, or who's opinions and ideas are automatically held above everyone else's.
While Cliques enjoy rejecting anyone who doesn't conform, natural friend groups don't even notice how others are dressing, talking, or acting. They only take notice if a person has done something to hurt someone.
Rejection, ostracism, or shunning of a member of a healthy group is rare, and only occurs if someone did something terrible that caused someone personal injury and damage. Things such as physical attacks, slander, adultery, child endangerment, verbal attacks, fraud, and theft. And even then, rejection does not necessarily occur if the person shows remorse and makes amends; if the damage is recognized, faced, and repaired.
In contrast, a Clique does not necessarily reject people no matter how heinous a crime they commit. Since the Clique membership is not based on anything except "In Crowd", play-hierarchy and the egos of the Leader(s), members do not get rejected as long as they meet those three requirements. A member would not be rejected solely for defrauding or attacking a fellow member. If, however, the victim stands up for themselves against the perpetrator, it is HE or SHE who will be rejected. The victim, not the perpetrator.
The exception to this is when the victim is either a "Leader" or a "Leader's Pet", then there will be great Ego Injury (narcissistic injury) and the perpetrator may be rejected. But it is not for the CRIME ITSELF, it is because of the Ego Injury. (If the very next day, someone perpetrated the exact same crime on a "lesser" member of the Clique, the whole thing would be downplayed, ignored.)
Natural friend groups have no parameters except obvious courtesy and respectful behavior; different personalities and points of view add richness to the group. New members are welcome, and jealousy does not dictate who is let in. A very accomplished man with "movie star looks" would be just as welcome as anyone, and a very intelligent, well-spoken woman with "movie star looks" would just as welcome as any man. A "nerdy" woman or man, a shy woman or man, a young, old, skinny, heavy, short, tall, any-race, any background woman or man is equally welcome as anyone else.
Cliques however actually enjoy rejecting people based on whatever "parameters" they make up, which can change based on someone's insecurities. The goal is sameness, not diversity, and anyone who disagrees, has an original point of view, who does not follow the social signals and dress, talk, or act within the very limited "approval" is not welcome. Anyone who the Clique members feel "out-shined" by in any way, or anyone who the Clique Leader(s) feel they won't be able to control will not be let in, and will possibly be driven out of the original larger group altogether.
On a rather large spectrum, Cliques range from kindergarten children leaving classmates out who don't have brown hair all the way to national and global political agendas. Cults are more intense versions of Cliques, but the basic parameters remain.
Who joins Cliques? Nearly all of us have been involved in Clique behavior at some point in our lives, maybe several times. Sometimes we're aware of it, sometimes we're not. We are usually more aware of being on the EXCLUSION end of Clique behavior than being on the INCLUSION side of it. When we are being included, we may not realize that people are being treated with contempt and disrespect by our fellow group members, and so we don't realize our group is really a Clique. But when we are being treated as if we don't belong, as if we are less worthy, as if we don't have a right to speak our minds, as if we don't have a right to participate, as if we are incapable and less than equal, then we can discern that there is indeed a Clique going on. Especially when those who we thought were our friends make no move to stand up for us, or act as if they don't even notice the behavior, as if we deserve to be treated as a lesser person (because to them, we are).
But when we are INCLUDED in a Clique, we may not think much about the way our partner is being spoken down to, or excluded. We may feel powerful when our brother or sister is being treated with disrespect by our "friend" who seems to hold us in high esteem. We may feel like we've "arrived" when WE are being spoken to as an equal by another person, but the person we are standing next to is being left out or condescended to. We may get a thrill of recognition when someone praises our opinions or Facebook post, and let that blind us to the way that person opposes or shoots down everything someone else says or posts.
Clique-Makers play to our innate human need for acceptance, approval, and recognition. We fall for it because we are human. But when we realize that we have been recruited into a Clique, we become Co-Clique-Makers if we go along with their agenda of excluding, disrespecting, and demeaning others.
When people are in a group or a class because of a common interest, they are all there for the same reason, and should all be equally welcome, and equally welcome to participate fully. Narcissists however, often bring the drama.
Exclusion, not Inclusion, is the main function of a Clique.
A person does not have to be full-blown NPD to make cliques, just enough narcissism to find joy in creating a subgroup within the group where they get to be the Leader, and include or exclude people based on their Judgment... usually, really, based on how much the Clique-Leader(s) believes a person will follow their agenda of exclusion. The willingness to exclude and demean others is the main requirement.
"We" are above "Them" is the Clique mantra.
Clique-makers bring drama into a situation by creating a "hierarchy". They will try to turn any place where there are humans into a social soup of "In Crowd" and "Out Crowd". Of course if the actual leader of the group is a Clique-maker (like a professor, coach, or manager) the drama is through the roof. However that does not need to be the case, Cliques are made all the time within larger groups, often hidden from the real leader of the group.
A person who is fair-minded, kind-hearted, with strong boundaries and original thought will usually not be included in a Clique. When they are, they will only be included until they make noises of disagreement, stand up for someone who is being treated unfairly, or until they "outshine" the Clique-Leader(s) in some way. Then they will be rejected forthwith, even shunned.
When there is a Clique happening, whoever does not fit the parameters of the Clique will be excluded purposely, and treated as if they are not worthy of common courtesy and respect. Obvious examples of this behavior can be found all over modern culture, and can be found in stories throughout recorded history. Large and small scale Cliques have caused terrible problems for humans throughout the ages.
Cliques are different than friend-groups. A subgroup of natural friends who happens to be in the larger group does not exclude people, judge people as "less worthy" than they are, or make it known that certain people are Not Liked.
Natural friends voluntary come together on their own, there is no Leader (or co-Leader) who gets to decide who "WE" don't like, or orchestrate what everyone else does all the time, or who's opinions and ideas are automatically held above everyone else's.
While Cliques enjoy rejecting anyone who doesn't conform, natural friend groups don't even notice how others are dressing, talking, or acting. They only take notice if a person has done something to hurt someone.
Rejection, ostracism, or shunning of a member of a healthy group is rare, and only occurs if someone did something terrible that caused someone personal injury and damage. Things such as physical attacks, slander, adultery, child endangerment, verbal attacks, fraud, and theft. And even then, rejection does not necessarily occur if the person shows remorse and makes amends; if the damage is recognized, faced, and repaired.
In contrast, a Clique does not necessarily reject people no matter how heinous a crime they commit. Since the Clique membership is not based on anything except "In Crowd", play-hierarchy and the egos of the Leader(s), members do not get rejected as long as they meet those three requirements. A member would not be rejected solely for defrauding or attacking a fellow member. If, however, the victim stands up for themselves against the perpetrator, it is HE or SHE who will be rejected. The victim, not the perpetrator.
The exception to this is when the victim is either a "Leader" or a "Leader's Pet", then there will be great Ego Injury (narcissistic injury) and the perpetrator may be rejected. But it is not for the CRIME ITSELF, it is because of the Ego Injury. (If the very next day, someone perpetrated the exact same crime on a "lesser" member of the Clique, the whole thing would be downplayed, ignored.)
Natural friend groups have no parameters except obvious courtesy and respectful behavior; different personalities and points of view add richness to the group. New members are welcome, and jealousy does not dictate who is let in. A very accomplished man with "movie star looks" would be just as welcome as anyone, and a very intelligent, well-spoken woman with "movie star looks" would just as welcome as any man. A "nerdy" woman or man, a shy woman or man, a young, old, skinny, heavy, short, tall, any-race, any background woman or man is equally welcome as anyone else.
Cliques however actually enjoy rejecting people based on whatever "parameters" they make up, which can change based on someone's insecurities. The goal is sameness, not diversity, and anyone who disagrees, has an original point of view, who does not follow the social signals and dress, talk, or act within the very limited "approval" is not welcome. Anyone who the Clique members feel "out-shined" by in any way, or anyone who the Clique Leader(s) feel they won't be able to control will not be let in, and will possibly be driven out of the original larger group altogether.
On a rather large spectrum, Cliques range from kindergarten children leaving classmates out who don't have brown hair all the way to national and global political agendas. Cults are more intense versions of Cliques, but the basic parameters remain.
Who joins Cliques? Nearly all of us have been involved in Clique behavior at some point in our lives, maybe several times. Sometimes we're aware of it, sometimes we're not. We are usually more aware of being on the EXCLUSION end of Clique behavior than being on the INCLUSION side of it. When we are being included, we may not realize that people are being treated with contempt and disrespect by our fellow group members, and so we don't realize our group is really a Clique. But when we are being treated as if we don't belong, as if we are less worthy, as if we don't have a right to speak our minds, as if we don't have a right to participate, as if we are incapable and less than equal, then we can discern that there is indeed a Clique going on. Especially when those who we thought were our friends make no move to stand up for us, or act as if they don't even notice the behavior, as if we deserve to be treated as a lesser person (because to them, we are).
But when we are INCLUDED in a Clique, we may not think much about the way our partner is being spoken down to, or excluded. We may feel powerful when our brother or sister is being treated with disrespect by our "friend" who seems to hold us in high esteem. We may feel like we've "arrived" when WE are being spoken to as an equal by another person, but the person we are standing next to is being left out or condescended to. We may get a thrill of recognition when someone praises our opinions or Facebook post, and let that blind us to the way that person opposes or shoots down everything someone else says or posts.
Clique-Makers play to our innate human need for acceptance, approval, and recognition. We fall for it because we are human. But when we realize that we have been recruited into a Clique, we become Co-Clique-Makers if we go along with their agenda of excluding, disrespecting, and demeaning others.
Spiders And Snakes And Triggers, Oh My
When someone sees a spider or snake, or perhaps a hornet or a centipede, they may instantly react with obvious fear or panic. It shows, you can see it happen, and they often don't try to hide their reaction. It happens so quickly that they may not be able to hide their reaction, even if they tried. They'll let out at least a muffled squeal or scream, or jump back, or run away. The spider or snake is associated as a trigger for fear in the person's brain, the region called the amygdala. It's one of the brain's ways of keeping us safe from harm, a kind of automatic function.
All of us humans have triggers that are very subtle, that we ourselves are unaware of. Some of those triggers cause feelings of anxiety, excitement, anger, comfort, joy, resentment, envy, jealousy, trust, or distrust. Things we see and hear, things we smell, things we touch can be triggers. Like the feeling of comfort when we step into a warm and bright kitchen, or smell baked bread. Our mind instantly feels comfort and warmth just from the smell of baked bread, or coffee, or maybe stew, or pie. Many of us feel warmer or even safer when we see a hearth fire or a woodstove, even if there is very little heat.
Most of us have triggers that cause more intense emotions such as panic, like when we see a snake or a spider, or some other possible threat. And some of us have triggers that cause us to feel rage or defensiveness, even hatred.
Triggers are not the same as straightforward emotional reactions to things. They are faster, instant, "knee-jerk". It can be the look in a person's eyes, or the shape of their eyes, that can be someone's trigger for trust, OR for distrust. The sound of someone's voice, their dialect or accent, their intonations, all can be triggers for us to trust them or to distrust them. Even someone's broad smile that is beautiful and sincere can be a trigger for some people to feel a great degree of trust and even caring, but it can also be a trigger for some to feel an extreme reaction of distrust, even anger. Both reactions have no thought process behind them, there is no actual assessment if the person smiling is actually trustworthy or not. Triggers are not about thought process, they are reactions.
When we have triggers we are not aware of, we may project the feelings the trigger produces onto the object, animal, or person. "Snakes are scary" "Spiders are dangerous" are really expressions of our feelings about them, not facts about them. Snakes are only scary to individuals who are afraid of them, and only about 11% of snake species are venomous. Spiders are only dangerous if the spider is venomous to humans, we are within biting range, and they choose to bite us. The vast majority of spiders are non-lethal to humans, and most are much more concerned about hiding and getting killed than almost any human. The survival chance of a venomous spider in the US is approximately 99%. The most recent stats of deaths by spider in the US is 5.
It would be accurate to say "I am afraid of snakes", or "I am afraid of spiders", rather than "snakes and spiders are dangerous". Statistically, humans cause about 3000 times more fatalities (homicides) than both snakes and spiders annually. Dogs cause about 10 times more than both snakes and spiders.
A lot of people share common triggers, sometimes, often, developed in childhood. Most people will admit to the baking bread aroma that makes us feel warm and happy inside. But there are all kinds of subtle things that our brain associates with a memory of a feeling, and so when we see, hear, smell, or feel something, we feel that again.
For me, Sunday mornings in the Spring, when the sun is out but it's not very warm or bright, make me feel bleak, even depressed if I don't recognize the trigger. When I was 8 years old, we woke up on Father's Day to find my Daddy passed away, he had had a heart attack during the night. So even decades later, on Sunday mornings when the sunlight and the air match that morning, I feel unnerved, sad, out of sorts, even dark. If I catch what's going on, I can actively do something to change my mood.
I know a young girl who is afraid of dogs, but terrified of German Shepherds, or dogs that look like German Shepherds. She is not silly or wimpy. She had an encounter with someone's pet German Shepherd that was terrifying for her, and it left the imprint in her subconscious. Now, when her eye sees a "German Shepherd", her brain signals "Danger!" Just like anyone who's afraid of bees and hornets and spiders.
There is a man I know, an lifelong fisherman, who is very much afraid of rapids when he is in a boat. Any rapids, any boat. Even water that resembles rapids because it is flowing over rocks in a shallow area of a lake. In his youth when he was fishing with a friend, they became caught in a dangerous part of a river, they were very much afraid for their lives. Ever since, he instantly becomes anxious when there is any resemblance to "white water".
Two people I have spoken to personally, a man and a woman, are triggered by blond haired, blue or green-eyed women. They both are well-spoken, functioning adults. Both become anxious or defensive, even angry, when they are in the presence of a woman who fits this description, especially if she smiles broadly or laughs out loud. The woman also becomes anxious around brunette women of a certain body type, and seems to see them as hostile or having an agenda, even if she has just met her. The man has a list of blond actors and musicians he "can't stand", none of whom he has ever met. Both of them have reported actually being abusive to others who match the description, the man even to the point of physical attack "because of the look on her face".
Common factors include: Both of these people have older female relatives who match these physical traits and have "happy normal family lives".
Also, both of these people have divorced parents, but more importantly both of them reported feeling neglected or abandoned by one or both parents. One of them also had a stepparent who fit the physical description, who was reportedly cold and cruel to them. Their common trigger is based solely on physical appearance and facial expressions, NOT on the behavior, speech, or personality of a person. Their trigger apparently tells them "This person is uncaring" or perhaps "This person is mean" or "This person will hurt you", regardless of the person's actual intentions, history, or character. Whatever the specific message is, the feelings invoked by their common trigger seem to be a combination of resentment, anger, fear, jealousy, and possibly envy. (Obviously they are both aware of their common triggers and are working to defuse them, since they cause them each problems in their personal and professional lives. One of them has a blond daughter to boot. Also I am blond, so without their self-awareness they probably would not have shared their experiences with me.)
I worked with a client once who was triggered terribly by anyone on the street who looked directly at him, or if two people had their heads together talking. In school, he was bullied terribly by the other classmates on a regular basis, for years, and he developed an imprint of the memories that is so strong it is nearly impossible to talk him down from an anxiety attack, or anger. Like people who believe that every spider is venomous absolutely, he believes every close conversation nearby is about him. He believes his feelings are caused by reality, not by a trigger implanted in his past.
I enjoy my "positive" triggers. The feeling of joy when I hear or see a child, of happiness when I see or touch an animal, of serenity when I am next to, on, or in water. I see my child-hands when I smell or touch clean dirt, and I hear my father's voice when I see, read, or watch anything by Tolkien. The feeling of elation when I see my son or hear his voice, of warmth when I hear my mother's. These are good, as far as I can tell. As long as I don't believe all children are the same, or all animals are human-friendly, or all water is pure or safe. As long as I know the feelings are my own, and do not think they are coming FROM the person, animal, or thing I am hearing, seeing, feeling, or smelling.
My "negative" triggers I work on as much as my awareness allows. I have some friends and associates who don't shy away from the subject, and freely share and compare their own. When I discover a new one, I take note and focus on defusing it. Being a human with a working amygdala, I will always be discovering old triggers, and creating new ones. I'd like to get past my fear of centipedes, dirty dishes, and driving in Boston. Luckily, triggers aren't all problem-causers or I'd never leave my room. Some of them are kind of nice.
Click this link for a helpful page: Identifying Your Triggers
All of us humans have triggers that are very subtle, that we ourselves are unaware of. Some of those triggers cause feelings of anxiety, excitement, anger, comfort, joy, resentment, envy, jealousy, trust, or distrust. Things we see and hear, things we smell, things we touch can be triggers. Like the feeling of comfort when we step into a warm and bright kitchen, or smell baked bread. Our mind instantly feels comfort and warmth just from the smell of baked bread, or coffee, or maybe stew, or pie. Many of us feel warmer or even safer when we see a hearth fire or a woodstove, even if there is very little heat.
Most of us have triggers that cause more intense emotions such as panic, like when we see a snake or a spider, or some other possible threat. And some of us have triggers that cause us to feel rage or defensiveness, even hatred.
Triggers are not the same as straightforward emotional reactions to things. They are faster, instant, "knee-jerk". It can be the look in a person's eyes, or the shape of their eyes, that can be someone's trigger for trust, OR for distrust. The sound of someone's voice, their dialect or accent, their intonations, all can be triggers for us to trust them or to distrust them. Even someone's broad smile that is beautiful and sincere can be a trigger for some people to feel a great degree of trust and even caring, but it can also be a trigger for some to feel an extreme reaction of distrust, even anger. Both reactions have no thought process behind them, there is no actual assessment if the person smiling is actually trustworthy or not. Triggers are not about thought process, they are reactions.
When we have triggers we are not aware of, we may project the feelings the trigger produces onto the object, animal, or person. "Snakes are scary" "Spiders are dangerous" are really expressions of our feelings about them, not facts about them. Snakes are only scary to individuals who are afraid of them, and only about 11% of snake species are venomous. Spiders are only dangerous if the spider is venomous to humans, we are within biting range, and they choose to bite us. The vast majority of spiders are non-lethal to humans, and most are much more concerned about hiding and getting killed than almost any human. The survival chance of a venomous spider in the US is approximately 99%. The most recent stats of deaths by spider in the US is 5.
It would be accurate to say "I am afraid of snakes", or "I am afraid of spiders", rather than "snakes and spiders are dangerous". Statistically, humans cause about 3000 times more fatalities (homicides) than both snakes and spiders annually. Dogs cause about 10 times more than both snakes and spiders.
A lot of people share common triggers, sometimes, often, developed in childhood. Most people will admit to the baking bread aroma that makes us feel warm and happy inside. But there are all kinds of subtle things that our brain associates with a memory of a feeling, and so when we see, hear, smell, or feel something, we feel that again.
For me, Sunday mornings in the Spring, when the sun is out but it's not very warm or bright, make me feel bleak, even depressed if I don't recognize the trigger. When I was 8 years old, we woke up on Father's Day to find my Daddy passed away, he had had a heart attack during the night. So even decades later, on Sunday mornings when the sunlight and the air match that morning, I feel unnerved, sad, out of sorts, even dark. If I catch what's going on, I can actively do something to change my mood.
I know a young girl who is afraid of dogs, but terrified of German Shepherds, or dogs that look like German Shepherds. She is not silly or wimpy. She had an encounter with someone's pet German Shepherd that was terrifying for her, and it left the imprint in her subconscious. Now, when her eye sees a "German Shepherd", her brain signals "Danger!" Just like anyone who's afraid of bees and hornets and spiders.
There is a man I know, an lifelong fisherman, who is very much afraid of rapids when he is in a boat. Any rapids, any boat. Even water that resembles rapids because it is flowing over rocks in a shallow area of a lake. In his youth when he was fishing with a friend, they became caught in a dangerous part of a river, they were very much afraid for their lives. Ever since, he instantly becomes anxious when there is any resemblance to "white water".
Two people I have spoken to personally, a man and a woman, are triggered by blond haired, blue or green-eyed women. They both are well-spoken, functioning adults. Both become anxious or defensive, even angry, when they are in the presence of a woman who fits this description, especially if she smiles broadly or laughs out loud. The woman also becomes anxious around brunette women of a certain body type, and seems to see them as hostile or having an agenda, even if she has just met her. The man has a list of blond actors and musicians he "can't stand", none of whom he has ever met. Both of them have reported actually being abusive to others who match the description, the man even to the point of physical attack "because of the look on her face".
Common factors include: Both of these people have older female relatives who match these physical traits and have "happy normal family lives".
Also, both of these people have divorced parents, but more importantly both of them reported feeling neglected or abandoned by one or both parents. One of them also had a stepparent who fit the physical description, who was reportedly cold and cruel to them. Their common trigger is based solely on physical appearance and facial expressions, NOT on the behavior, speech, or personality of a person. Their trigger apparently tells them "This person is uncaring" or perhaps "This person is mean" or "This person will hurt you", regardless of the person's actual intentions, history, or character. Whatever the specific message is, the feelings invoked by their common trigger seem to be a combination of resentment, anger, fear, jealousy, and possibly envy. (Obviously they are both aware of their common triggers and are working to defuse them, since they cause them each problems in their personal and professional lives. One of them has a blond daughter to boot. Also I am blond, so without their self-awareness they probably would not have shared their experiences with me.)
I worked with a client once who was triggered terribly by anyone on the street who looked directly at him, or if two people had their heads together talking. In school, he was bullied terribly by the other classmates on a regular basis, for years, and he developed an imprint of the memories that is so strong it is nearly impossible to talk him down from an anxiety attack, or anger. Like people who believe that every spider is venomous absolutely, he believes every close conversation nearby is about him. He believes his feelings are caused by reality, not by a trigger implanted in his past.
I enjoy my "positive" triggers. The feeling of joy when I hear or see a child, of happiness when I see or touch an animal, of serenity when I am next to, on, or in water. I see my child-hands when I smell or touch clean dirt, and I hear my father's voice when I see, read, or watch anything by Tolkien. The feeling of elation when I see my son or hear his voice, of warmth when I hear my mother's. These are good, as far as I can tell. As long as I don't believe all children are the same, or all animals are human-friendly, or all water is pure or safe. As long as I know the feelings are my own, and do not think they are coming FROM the person, animal, or thing I am hearing, seeing, feeling, or smelling.
My "negative" triggers I work on as much as my awareness allows. I have some friends and associates who don't shy away from the subject, and freely share and compare their own. When I discover a new one, I take note and focus on defusing it. Being a human with a working amygdala, I will always be discovering old triggers, and creating new ones. I'd like to get past my fear of centipedes, dirty dishes, and driving in Boston. Luckily, triggers aren't all problem-causers or I'd never leave my room. Some of them are kind of nice.
Click this link for a helpful page: Identifying Your Triggers
Isolating, Manipulation, Social Anxiety
Isolating friends, partners and family members from one another is a common trait of narcissism, but non-narc. people with social anxiety also may do this. They may have anxiety about group activities, even if everyone who would be invited is known to them. If they have past trauma, they may fear being excluded when those friends connect with each other. They may fear being ganged up on, or left out of conversation or jokes. They may fear being seen as less cool, less intelligent, less talented, less funny, less desirable when there is more than one friend present. Those with social anxiety may try to control plans, and bow out of things they can't control, or if more than one friend is going. They may make plans with one person, even for public events, and fail to mention those plans to anyone else due to their own social caution. They may not even realize they are isolating people, and they may also be doing it out of consideration when they are worried how one friend will act toward another friend, and are unsure how to deal with such a situation (they may not realize that they aren't responsible for the behavior of others.)
Manipulators and Narcissists on the other hand may have all these same fears and do the same things, but they also have the fear of being found out, and of being "outshined". This fear, which is usually well-founded, drives their need to isolate friends from one another. They often think of themselves as the hub of all of their relationships, and others like spokes, all radiating out from them. Friends (and family) are purposely kept apart from one another in order to maintain all kinds of fictional facades, both about the manipulator, and about certain "friends" who are painted in a bad light. They can not have Jack meeting up with Mary and finding out that she's actually a normal, intelligent, kind person who shows no signs of being crazy or mean. And if they become friends, they may exchange information.
Manipulators and Narcissists do not attend events to share experiences with friends, except when that "friend" is a co-narcissist with the same agenda. They are there more to be seen than anything else. Only those who enhance their appearance or go along with their agenda will not be ditched. They aren't at the concert to experience the music, they are there to BE SEEN. As...the number one fan (no one else gets this music the way I do), or part of the "In Crowd", or as a fellow "star", or as one of the "Hot People", maybe even the "Hottest" or "Cutest" or "Coolest". They are there not to SHARE the experience, but to feel a rush from feeling like they are BETTER in some way, either better than those who are at the event, OR better than those who were purposely left out.
Manipulators and Narcissists have agendas. If their plan for attending an event is to see if they can meet a new romantic interest, of course they are going to hide the event from anyone they're currently dating, or any friends of the person they're dating. This agenda is a common reason why the smear campaigns begin; if someone sees them, the manipulator has to have a "reason" why they have ditched their partner, and it has to be their partner's "fault" in order for them to look innocent. They will always turn around anything they get caught doing wrong (betrayal) on either the person who caught them, or their partner. Any of their co-conspirator friends (also manipulators) will back them up. It's just second-nature to them, they've all been getting out of "trouble" most likely for years this way, and are unlikely to wake up.
Manipulators and Narcissists often play to others' personalities; they create a persona that will elicit sympathy, respect, or desire from each individual person. So when there is a gathering of people who the manipulator has played different characters to, they are going to be seen by at least one person as being fake. (When this does occur, that person is often targeted for reputation destruction.) When the Narcissist is being seen by a lot of people for a reason, they will often be aloof, flitting here and there very briefly, making a big deal about how busy they are, even barking orders or displaying dramatic frustration at how much has to be done (but refusing help). They will leave early unless they can isolate themselves away from the crowd. They can not risk being seen for too long as NOT playing the various personas they have set up with each person. Adapting a stuck-up attitude, an overwhelmed attitude (too much to do) or even an angry attitude can facilitate their hiding if all else fails. These attitudes make them unapproachable, and will keep anyone who would see through them at a distance. (They can often be seen suddenly dropping their attitude to talk calmly and happily with certain people, even at length, making small talk. "Which attitude is real," you may wonder, '"the frustrated and angry one, or the calm and happy one?")
In summation, the social anxiety isolator may bow out of going to a local festival because more than one friend wants to go, but they won't try to hide their plans of going or not going, and they won't be angry about other friends showing up. But the manipulator will invite one friend, or one group of friends, and purposely exclude another person by hiding their plans from them, hiding the event from them, even acting as if they aren't going. They may even ask the person they're excluding "what are you doing on Sunday night" just to make sure that the person is not planning on attending the event.
- "What can I do if I find myself isolating people from one another? Am I a Narcissist?"
- If I am afraid I am isolating friends or family, I probably don't have the Narcissist Disorder, but I still may be causing unnecessary distress and problems for other people, and for myself. Human beings do have a bent for manipulation in childhood, but as we mature we learn why it's wrong and how to navigate life in an honest and more straightforward manner. If I find myself isolating or triangulating people, it would be helpful if I take a look at my relationships, and things that could be causing me stress. Often we don't realize how much stress we are dealing with until something "breaks". I can ask myself these questions:
- Am I trying to deal with my own anxiety issues by trying to exert control over other people?
- Have I been dealing with someone who is controlling, bullying, abusive, manipulating, toward me or toward others?
- Do I actually and honestly TRUST all the people I am in close contact with?
- Am I doing something that I feel guilty or ashamed about, and might be unconsciously trying to hide it?
- Am I afraid people will see the "real me" and not like me anymore?
- Am I jealous or envious of someone in my group?
- Am I harboring trauma from my past that I have not healed from?
I don't want to be kept a minute longer from engaging fully in life, love, adventure, and happiness, so I am fully engaged in healing my own scratches, bruises, and wounds, and helping others heal when they need to, as much as I am able.
(Imagine a world where every person kept themselves emotionally healthy AND was aware and willing to help everyone else stay healthy, and feel supported, included, and respected? There would no longer be any need for counseling, or prison, for that matter! Idealist? No, other animals pull it off, it can be done. It has been done. It is the not the will to do it that is required so much as the lack of REFUSAL to do it.)
Blessings.
A note to readers: everyone in a free country has the right to write, you have the same right to write as the editor of the New York Times. That's what "free" means. If you don't like what someone else wrote, or don't agree with it...or you don't like the person for some ego reason so you want to disrespect everything they write... or you have prejudice against certain kinds of humans so you dispute everything they write about...DO REMEMBER that you are solely responsible for your own actions, and that NO piece of writing can "MAKE" a person say or do ANYTHING. Only the mentally disordered actually believe that a piece of writing MAKES people do or say things. So if you disagree, and you want to express that, feel free, that is also your right! But if you want to harass someone for what they wrote, THINK AGAIN. Writing is protected under free speech. LIBEL is when that writing spreads false information about a REAL PERSON, not generalities about human behavior. Harassment is against the law, for real, even in this current ridiculous atmosphere of entitlement and nastiness.
Why More Male Narcissists Than Female?
Why are there more Narc. Males than Narc.
Females in the general population? (And there are, make no mistake.)
It's all about the Culture we live in. None of us chose to be born into
it, but here we are, and Narcs take advantage of any opportunity
that others allow them to take. Females do help facilitate male
narcissism when they compete with each other for male attention,
throwing each other under the bus, and refusing to bolster their
daughter's self-actualization, refusing to stand up for girls and women,
refusing to RECOGNIZE other women as equal to men, and refusing to
TREAT women with the same respect and admiration they give men. And this
huge disparity lays a red carpet for male Narcs to FLOURISH. I know
several female musicians, for example, who get very little credit and
recognition for their amazing talent, except from their friends and
people who think they're "hot". While I know zillions of mediocre male
musicians who get all the recognition in the world from BOTH females and
males. This culture gets a thrill out of admiring men, but they act
lukewarm and bored toward women who have twice the talent. It's not
about reality. And immature males eat it all up with a spoon, as if the
reason they are getting more attention and credit is because they
INTRINSICALLY DESERVE IT. Obviously not all males have this problem, and
there are plenty of females who do have this problem as well
(narcissism), but the reason for the imbalance is the culture we live
in, and that very few do anything about. It's not about gaining equal
rights nearly as much as it is about checking OURSELVES. Our OWN biases
and the way we treat others, and the recognition and attention and
praise we give, or refuse to give, others.
Read this thread, these men are dead serious about their beliefs and delusions, and no one is setting them straight, no one ever did when they were growing up :
Men Are Superior To Women
Read this thread, these men are dead serious about their beliefs and delusions, and no one is setting them straight, no one ever did when they were growing up :
Men Are Superior To Women
Don't Break Their Spirits
(From H. McFarland)
In a recent sermon (view "God the Father" from 5/16, starting at 28:30), Pastor Ira Hall expounds upon Eph. 6:4 NASB: And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. He reminds us that "bring them up" means to rear them, to cherish, to train. Rearing, training, and cherishing as bringing up teaches others that they are valuable. In Greek, discipline means "education, training, and correction." Instruction means "mild rebuke or warning." Col. 3:21 states, Fathers do not exasperate your children, so they will not lose heart. To exasperate is to provoke. The Greek word for "lose heart" means broken spirits. Essentially Paul is saying, "Don't break your child's spirit. Don't crush them." Fathers provoke by not providing cherishing training, mild rebuke, education or correction. "This is not the same as making your child mad," Hall says. "But they should never not feel cherished."
In a recent sermon (view "God the Father" from 5/16, starting at 28:30), Pastor Ira Hall expounds upon Eph. 6:4 NASB: And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. He reminds us that "bring them up" means to rear them, to cherish, to train. Rearing, training, and cherishing as bringing up teaches others that they are valuable. In Greek, discipline means "education, training, and correction." Instruction means "mild rebuke or warning." Col. 3:21 states, Fathers do not exasperate your children, so they will not lose heart. To exasperate is to provoke. The Greek word for "lose heart" means broken spirits. Essentially Paul is saying, "Don't break your child's spirit. Don't crush them." Fathers provoke by not providing cherishing training, mild rebuke, education or correction. "This is not the same as making your child mad," Hall says. "But they should never not feel cherished."
God And Women
"The accusation of feminism against any woman who would rather obey God than men gets quite tedious."
~M.Reid
~M.Reid
~I Concur 100% QUITE tedious.
Quivering Daughters Blog
I just found the "Quivering Daughters" Web Log, and it is instantly among my favorites. Well written, well organized, and most importantly from sincere and objective hearts.
A quote and disclaimer:
*Please remember that articles at Quivering Daughters are written primarily to adult women struggling with a fundamentalist or patriocentric upbringing. Bear in mind that some content might be triggering for parents or siblings to read. As a writer in keeping with my audience, it is not to "paint with a broad brush" or "condemn" those who believe differently but to address the concerns of those to whom I write. Thank you for understanding.*
Visit by clicking here:
A quote and disclaimer:
*Please remember that articles at Quivering Daughters are written primarily to adult women struggling with a fundamentalist or patriocentric upbringing. Bear in mind that some content might be triggering for parents or siblings to read. As a writer in keeping with my audience, it is not to "paint with a broad brush" or "condemn" those who believe differently but to address the concerns of those to whom I write. Thank you for understanding.*
Visit by clicking here:
Am I A Bully?
One of the things that happens to us when we
have gone through abuse, whether it was from family, classmates,
workmates, or a partner, is that our subconscious repeats what they said
to us and about us. The insults, the jabs, the put-downs, these things
are not forgotten by the subconscious, but are retained. When we leave
them in there, they settle deeper and become their own mantra, even
though they're not true, telling us we
are a loser, we are not worthy, we are bad, we are ugly, we are
unlikable, we are incapable. We can even believe that all these things
are actually real, and forget that they are things someone else said or implied to
be hurtful.
Eventually we may hear this mantra in our subconscious so often that we believe that people we just met also think these things about us. We no longer see ourselves as we really are, and we think that people who are actually kindhearted are shaming and judging us as well. It becomes harder and harder to see the difference between kindness and arrogance.
When we let this go on without seeking healing, we can start to project all these things onto other people, especially those close to us, especially those who actually care. Because these are the people who feel like they are part of ourselves, so what we feel about ourselves, we extend onto them. If we have the echo of "I am a bad person" in our subconscious, we project that echo onto the other person "you are a bad person, too." Obviously, this will cause all kinds of problems in any relationship, which only serve to re-play the mantra in our heads "I am unlikable".
The reality of our current society is that there are indeed a lot of people who are actually impolite, self-centered, uncaring jerks, we run into them every day it seems. Some of the people in our "friendship" circles turn out to be this way. The problem for those of us who have been abused is learning how to deal with them without letting their behavior reaffirm and magnify the subconscious echoes already in our heads. (That is how bullies so often end up in charge of things, they push buttons in us that other bullies had already implanted and get us to feel confused, feel embarrassed, back down and quit.) Without that mantra in our head "I am not as good", we would not so easily back down or fear putting ourselves out there.
Sometimes we fear our own reaction to bullies so much that we stop ourselves from doing anything that would require dealing with them. We can become reclusive, even agoraphobic. Sometimes when we start fearing our own loss of control, or when we build up a huge amount of resentment and anger, we may then take the next step into identifying OURSELVES as one of the BULLIES. When we do this, we begin to feel accused and attacked by anyone who talks about abuse, counseling, and healing. We have put ourselves in the "abuser" role, and forget that we were actually the target of abusers. Identifying ourselves as NOT a "Victim" is about Ego protection, and Ego protection is almost always due to having been bullied by someone either in the past or in the present, or both.
If we are living in a Bully Culture (most of us are in the U.S.) then we may protect ourselves by identifying ourselves as a "Bad Ass" so we won't get targeted for yet MORE bullying. And if we identify ourselves as "Bad Ass", we deny ourselves help and healing, and we may end up living inside a thick, hard, protective shell that's very, very small, for years, even for the rest of our lives. We only trust others who are "Bad Ass" too, which means we end up with bullies for friends. We often actually attack anyone who offers help and healing to ourselves OR to OTHERS. We decide that "Victims Are Weak" which of course is horse sh**, and we know it, but we must adapt this false stance to fit in with the others who are pretending to be "Bad Ass". We tragically end up forgetting that standing up against abusive people is the ultimate sign of strength, not BEING one of them. Anyone can BE one of them, all it takes is a little acting and the right clothes. (A person who is truly a "Bad Ass" does not feel the need for anyone to notice.) Real strength lays in resisting this impulse and finding help to heal the echoes in our subconscious that keep telling us we don't deserve a good and happy life. We can make them go away with the right help, we can rewrite and undo that mantra that someone else put in our heads.
"Dr. Phil" did a quick illustration on his show about the echoes implanted in our subconscious by others. This is Meghan, she is only 15. She already believes the echoes, but she has not yet forgotten where they came from completely. Her family reconfirms these echoes with their cold and judgmental treatment of her (more bullies). Luckily, her mother has enough awareness to see she needs outside help. You can find it here:
Meghan's Echoes
Eventually we may hear this mantra in our subconscious so often that we believe that people we just met also think these things about us. We no longer see ourselves as we really are, and we think that people who are actually kindhearted are shaming and judging us as well. It becomes harder and harder to see the difference between kindness and arrogance.
When we let this go on without seeking healing, we can start to project all these things onto other people, especially those close to us, especially those who actually care. Because these are the people who feel like they are part of ourselves, so what we feel about ourselves, we extend onto them. If we have the echo of "I am a bad person" in our subconscious, we project that echo onto the other person "you are a bad person, too." Obviously, this will cause all kinds of problems in any relationship, which only serve to re-play the mantra in our heads "I am unlikable".
The reality of our current society is that there are indeed a lot of people who are actually impolite, self-centered, uncaring jerks, we run into them every day it seems. Some of the people in our "friendship" circles turn out to be this way. The problem for those of us who have been abused is learning how to deal with them without letting their behavior reaffirm and magnify the subconscious echoes already in our heads. (That is how bullies so often end up in charge of things, they push buttons in us that other bullies had already implanted and get us to feel confused, feel embarrassed, back down and quit.) Without that mantra in our head "I am not as good", we would not so easily back down or fear putting ourselves out there.
Sometimes we fear our own reaction to bullies so much that we stop ourselves from doing anything that would require dealing with them. We can become reclusive, even agoraphobic. Sometimes when we start fearing our own loss of control, or when we build up a huge amount of resentment and anger, we may then take the next step into identifying OURSELVES as one of the BULLIES. When we do this, we begin to feel accused and attacked by anyone who talks about abuse, counseling, and healing. We have put ourselves in the "abuser" role, and forget that we were actually the target of abusers. Identifying ourselves as NOT a "Victim" is about Ego protection, and Ego protection is almost always due to having been bullied by someone either in the past or in the present, or both.
If we are living in a Bully Culture (most of us are in the U.S.) then we may protect ourselves by identifying ourselves as a "Bad Ass" so we won't get targeted for yet MORE bullying. And if we identify ourselves as "Bad Ass", we deny ourselves help and healing, and we may end up living inside a thick, hard, protective shell that's very, very small, for years, even for the rest of our lives. We only trust others who are "Bad Ass" too, which means we end up with bullies for friends. We often actually attack anyone who offers help and healing to ourselves OR to OTHERS. We decide that "Victims Are Weak" which of course is horse sh**, and we know it, but we must adapt this false stance to fit in with the others who are pretending to be "Bad Ass". We tragically end up forgetting that standing up against abusive people is the ultimate sign of strength, not BEING one of them. Anyone can BE one of them, all it takes is a little acting and the right clothes. (A person who is truly a "Bad Ass" does not feel the need for anyone to notice.) Real strength lays in resisting this impulse and finding help to heal the echoes in our subconscious that keep telling us we don't deserve a good and happy life. We can make them go away with the right help, we can rewrite and undo that mantra that someone else put in our heads.
"Dr. Phil" did a quick illustration on his show about the echoes implanted in our subconscious by others. This is Meghan, she is only 15. She already believes the echoes, but she has not yet forgotten where they came from completely. Her family reconfirms these echoes with their cold and judgmental treatment of her (more bullies). Luckily, her mother has enough awareness to see she needs outside help. You can find it here:
Meghan's Echoes
MYTH: Narcissists Are Highly Intelligent
Narcissist Myth: "They are extremely intelligent."
Reality: High IQ does not a Narcissist make, and in fact it more often than not can bolster an individual's understanding of ethical and courteous treatment of all people.
There are Narcissists who have high IQs. However, having even a "genius level IQ" does not mean a person possesses Global Intelligence. In other words, you can be a brilliant mathematician and be dumb as a rock in other things. Global Intelligence means you have high function AND interconnectedness between the different parts of the brain. You might still only be a "genius" in one or two areas, but those are usually because that's where your passions lie, where your heart is in.
Global Intelligence means you can integrate all kinds of things, including how to treat other people and WHY civil and courteous behavior is absolutely essential to a healthy society, healthy family, healthy individual, healthy life. Ethics and respectful social courtesy and personal responsibility are quite mathematical, very logical, and very important; there is nothing "trivial" about them, or unnecessary. Only a person who is not very good at logic would treat others with the disdain and disrespect that Narcissists hand out on a regular basis.
A Narcissist with a high IQ can not have Global Intelligence, so their "genius" can only, ONLY, lay in their field of focus, and without ethics, their "genius" is often muddied or even obliterated by a lack of understanding of the actual implications and effects of what they are trying to accomplish. He might be the best violin-maker that ever lived, but he is going to lose paying customers, drive away business, and lose any assistant talented enough to work with him due to his behavior. There is a good chance also that instead of learning from anyone else who is a talented violin-maker and enjoying the camaraderie of a like-mind, he will instead try to undermine them. Also, the high IQ Narcissist is applying (wasting) much of his brain power to garnering power and recognition for himself instead of putting his focus on his work, and so the work always suffers. He usually achieves mediocrity, which serves to increase his Narcissistic rage. (Antonio Salieri in Amadeus).
There are plenty of Narcissists with lower IQs as well. Where a person applies their focus is where they "get good at" stuff. So if a person with a lower IQ has focused on social manipulation since they were in their youth, they will have achieved expertise by the time they reach adulthood. As one Narcissist said to me several years ago, "Genius is as genius does."
(I'm sure he made that up on his own.)
Reality: High IQ does not a Narcissist make, and in fact it more often than not can bolster an individual's understanding of ethical and courteous treatment of all people.
There are Narcissists who have high IQs. However, having even a "genius level IQ" does not mean a person possesses Global Intelligence. In other words, you can be a brilliant mathematician and be dumb as a rock in other things. Global Intelligence means you have high function AND interconnectedness between the different parts of the brain. You might still only be a "genius" in one or two areas, but those are usually because that's where your passions lie, where your heart is in.
Global Intelligence means you can integrate all kinds of things, including how to treat other people and WHY civil and courteous behavior is absolutely essential to a healthy society, healthy family, healthy individual, healthy life. Ethics and respectful social courtesy and personal responsibility are quite mathematical, very logical, and very important; there is nothing "trivial" about them, or unnecessary. Only a person who is not very good at logic would treat others with the disdain and disrespect that Narcissists hand out on a regular basis.
A Narcissist with a high IQ can not have Global Intelligence, so their "genius" can only, ONLY, lay in their field of focus, and without ethics, their "genius" is often muddied or even obliterated by a lack of understanding of the actual implications and effects of what they are trying to accomplish. He might be the best violin-maker that ever lived, but he is going to lose paying customers, drive away business, and lose any assistant talented enough to work with him due to his behavior. There is a good chance also that instead of learning from anyone else who is a talented violin-maker and enjoying the camaraderie of a like-mind, he will instead try to undermine them. Also, the high IQ Narcissist is applying (wasting) much of his brain power to garnering power and recognition for himself instead of putting his focus on his work, and so the work always suffers. He usually achieves mediocrity, which serves to increase his Narcissistic rage. (Antonio Salieri in Amadeus).
There are plenty of Narcissists with lower IQs as well. Where a person applies their focus is where they "get good at" stuff. So if a person with a lower IQ has focused on social manipulation since they were in their youth, they will have achieved expertise by the time they reach adulthood. As one Narcissist said to me several years ago, "Genius is as genius does."
(I'm sure he made that up on his own.)
Common Gossipers
Gossip is something that some people do in order to make themselves feel innocent, by devaluing someone else. It is narcissistic when anyone does it, but the level of maliciousness escalates with the level of narcissism in an individual. The target is often someone who they feel challenged or intimidated by, someone who they desire control over, or someone who they have treated poorly and are seeking justification from someone else, as if a person can "deserve" poor treatment.
Gossip is often used to destroy a person's credibility, and as an attempt to make sure that others will not see them in a positive light, thereby guarding against friendships and connections made without the gossiper's control.
They are not talking about the person or the situation to find a way to resolve conflict or improve the relationship, they are seeking someone to agree with them in painting this person as "bad", so they can be the "good" one, and above reproach.
(If the person they are gossiping to suggests a solution, or that it might not be the other person's "fault", they will argue, change the subject, or end the discussion. They aren't seeking solutions, they are seeking a gossip partner.)
The difference between a run-of-the-mill gossip who does it out of a lack of maturity and awareness, and a "Narcissist" gossip, is that the Narcissist is purposely using gossip as a tool to isolate the target from any support and friendship from others, and to destroy the person's reputation. While gossip is always wrong, and always about the person's ego who is doing the gossiping, it is from a lack of maturity. But when a Narcissist is doing it, it is a weapon that can actually cause major damage. The target is often someone close to them, like a "best friend", "partner", son or daughter, or other family member. It can also be a person who makes the Narcissist feel "outshined". There is a strategy to the gossip, they will not stop until they have convinced others that the target is an unworthy, unstable, or bad person, and they are reasonably sure that the target will not be welcomed or accepted. The goal is to get others to REJECT the person, and also garner sympathy and high opinions for themselves.
Most Gossipers seem to share certain personality traits, such as:
Gossipers, whether they have NPD or not, may have been a target of gossiping in the past. They may have grown up around adults who gossiped, and may have not been taught what is wrong with it, or why it is harmful. They may think that's the way people "stay ahead of the game", and don't know that the whole world is not playing "the game". They seem also not to realize that anyone can become a target, even themselves. The average Gossiper talks about whoever is not in the room, including the person they were just gossiping with.
(Comment: It is amazing to observers how easily others buy right into this process, and how so few seem to recognize it or have the courage to stop it from hurting someone.)
Gossip is often used to destroy a person's credibility, and as an attempt to make sure that others will not see them in a positive light, thereby guarding against friendships and connections made without the gossiper's control.
They are not talking about the person or the situation to find a way to resolve conflict or improve the relationship, they are seeking someone to agree with them in painting this person as "bad", so they can be the "good" one, and above reproach.
(If the person they are gossiping to suggests a solution, or that it might not be the other person's "fault", they will argue, change the subject, or end the discussion. They aren't seeking solutions, they are seeking a gossip partner.)
The difference between a run-of-the-mill gossip who does it out of a lack of maturity and awareness, and a "Narcissist" gossip, is that the Narcissist is purposely using gossip as a tool to isolate the target from any support and friendship from others, and to destroy the person's reputation. While gossip is always wrong, and always about the person's ego who is doing the gossiping, it is from a lack of maturity. But when a Narcissist is doing it, it is a weapon that can actually cause major damage. The target is often someone close to them, like a "best friend", "partner", son or daughter, or other family member. It can also be a person who makes the Narcissist feel "outshined". There is a strategy to the gossip, they will not stop until they have convinced others that the target is an unworthy, unstable, or bad person, and they are reasonably sure that the target will not be welcomed or accepted. The goal is to get others to REJECT the person, and also garner sympathy and high opinions for themselves.
Most Gossipers seem to share certain personality traits, such as:
- a high level of interest in what others are doing
- a propensity to interpret the actions of others in the most negative light
- a belief that every single thing their target does is planned and "on purpose"
- a belief that their target has more than their fair share of something (success, looks, popularity, money)
- a desire to prove that they are "good", "innocent", or "important", possibly due to being bullied in their past
- a lack of awareness about their effect on others, for good or for ill
- they may feel like they are not noticed or accepted by others unless they are calling attention to themselves or to someone else.
- a belief that everyone has an agenda against others, and that everyone gossips, and that all discussion about other people is gossip. (They don't understand the vast difference between gossiping, venting, and seeking support or understanding. They don't believe that there are people who can listen without judging, because they don't.)
- a lack of awareness of a "bigger picture", and how human beings affect one another's well-being.
Gossipers, whether they have NPD or not, may have been a target of gossiping in the past. They may have grown up around adults who gossiped, and may have not been taught what is wrong with it, or why it is harmful. They may think that's the way people "stay ahead of the game", and don't know that the whole world is not playing "the game". They seem also not to realize that anyone can become a target, even themselves. The average Gossiper talks about whoever is not in the room, including the person they were just gossiping with.
(Comment: It is amazing to observers how easily others buy right into this process, and how so few seem to recognize it or have the courage to stop it from hurting someone.)
Experts, Leaders and Gurus
We decide we know what kind of people are "wise" and "worthy", who knows things and who doesn't, who is respect-worthy and who is not, long before we are mature enough to actually see others in the light of reality.
Women Don't Like Nice Guys
The Gatekeeper Narcissist
A hallmark of a Narcissist is being the self-appointed "gatekeeper" of a group, club, community or workplace, but not in a good way. While the "gatekeeper" position is often a normal part of many groups, an integral function is to welcome new people genuinely and openly; rejecting new people or current members is rare and only done when a person is found to be actually dangerous.
The Gatekeeper Narcissist does not welcome one and all to join, even if the group is supposed to be open and public. Only those who do not threaten the ego or personal agenda of this person are welcomed into the group. For example, anyone who the gatekeeper narcissist believes is more talented, smarter, better looking, nicer, or more charismatic than he or she is will be kept out of the group with any means possible, or made to look bad to everyone else if they do get past them. Anyone who has seen through their agenda will definitely be kept out, even if they have no ill intent. This rejection will be fictionalized to anyone who asks; it will be said that the person is undesirable in some way; they are too weird, slutty, stuck-up, untalented, prima dona, unworthy in some way; the nastier the better; it has nothing to do with reality. This person could be as kind and humble as Mother Theresa, but will be painted by the Gatekeeper Narcissist as a "rotten apple" somehow.
The preferred method is directly discouraging a person by treating them with disdain and arrogance, sending a "message" directly to the person that they are "unwanted". This is often done by only one or two people, but to the target it can be daunting, and there is no way to know if the whole group is similarly arrogant and cold. (Of course, half the time the rest of the members have no idea why this person stays away from the group, and to the Gatekeeper's delight, they often assume that the person either was not interested, or didn't like it.)
It is a rare person that ever stands up to a Gatekeeper Narcissist, because doing so often results in major drama, and whoever the Narcissists sycophants are will turn on the whistleblower. People seem to know instinctively that standing up to a Narcissist who has the smallest amount of influence will enrage them, and he or she will trash them to kingdom come. Only the bravest of us will risk the drama that is sure to follow. Unfortunately, most of the time the Narcissist Gatekeeper is left in his or her "position" because those who are aware of them don't want to deal with the fallout.
The Gatekeeper Narcissist does not welcome one and all to join, even if the group is supposed to be open and public. Only those who do not threaten the ego or personal agenda of this person are welcomed into the group. For example, anyone who the gatekeeper narcissist believes is more talented, smarter, better looking, nicer, or more charismatic than he or she is will be kept out of the group with any means possible, or made to look bad to everyone else if they do get past them. Anyone who has seen through their agenda will definitely be kept out, even if they have no ill intent. This rejection will be fictionalized to anyone who asks; it will be said that the person is undesirable in some way; they are too weird, slutty, stuck-up, untalented, prima dona, unworthy in some way; the nastier the better; it has nothing to do with reality. This person could be as kind and humble as Mother Theresa, but will be painted by the Gatekeeper Narcissist as a "rotten apple" somehow.
The preferred method is directly discouraging a person by treating them with disdain and arrogance, sending a "message" directly to the person that they are "unwanted". This is often done by only one or two people, but to the target it can be daunting, and there is no way to know if the whole group is similarly arrogant and cold. (Of course, half the time the rest of the members have no idea why this person stays away from the group, and to the Gatekeeper's delight, they often assume that the person either was not interested, or didn't like it.)
It is a rare person that ever stands up to a Gatekeeper Narcissist, because doing so often results in major drama, and whoever the Narcissists sycophants are will turn on the whistleblower. People seem to know instinctively that standing up to a Narcissist who has the smallest amount of influence will enrage them, and he or she will trash them to kingdom come. Only the bravest of us will risk the drama that is sure to follow. Unfortunately, most of the time the Narcissist Gatekeeper is left in his or her "position" because those who are aware of them don't want to deal with the fallout.
On Suicide
You can bet you have a purpose.
Dont let these people have another beautiful casualty!
Just remember even if it's just you and God in this lifetime - you STILL have enough to SHINE!!!
~ANATILAL
Can Men Or Women Detect Manipulators
Answer from author, support counselor and site administrator of
After Narcissistic Abuse There Is Light And Love
"Im going to answer from personal experience.
1. When I was first good narc bait 5 years ago to the narcissist that abused me, I was NOT AWARE that what he was doing to me was manipulation. Why? I had blind spots. At the time, I was vulnerable to the ways he worked me, probably because I needed / wanted to hear that I was beautiful, smart, funny and lovable. I had my own "ego issues" that allowed me to be stroked and exploited.
Now that I have plugged my "worth holes" and died to my own ego - Im not vulnerable to being puffed up. When you don't need it, you aren't manipulated by it.
Generalizing, I see others who have the same issues to be manipulatable without being aware that it's happening. I see women and men who feel bad about themselves, or doubt their self worth or have ego problems (thinking they're all that) who ARE manipulated by others without realizing it.
2. I dealt with this experience first hand - Men NOT being able to SEE when a woman is is sabotaging another woman. Here's why I believe this is difficult. The woman I knew that did this to me, is a narcissistic individual. She is overly flirtacious, inappropriately sexual and constantly pandering to men's egos with her sexuality. We worked together. She felt jealous whenever I'd get any attention. Once when a man she was interested in told me I looked like a dark haired Cameron Diaz, she not only ran me down to him - trying to make it look like there was some reason not to find me attractive, but then she came to me and gave me a rant about how she couldnt trust women, how I wasn't a good friend to her if I didnt text him immediately and tell him what a piece of s*it he was for "hitting on me".
Ultimately - he apologized to her profusely for ever finding me attractive as he was worried that she'd not sleep with him if he didnt do so. (that was my thought anyway)
A second instance was at a New Years Eve party last year. She and I went to my friend's party. I had a date there. I had another friend, a male, who was also friends with the host of the party who I was trying to get to stop by so that we could all share in a New Years toast together. The narc girl knew that I went to the bathroom to have a conversation with my guy friend where it was a little quieter. While in the bathroom, I overheard my date go up to the narc girl and inquire where I was. I heard her say, "Ohhh she's primping in the bathroom." He said, "Boy she's been in there a long time." To which she replied..."I know! She does this ALL THE TIME". Trying to portray me as someone who's so worried about my looks that I was in the bathroom for an inordinate amount of time- when that wasn't even the case and she knew it.
Bottom line, in both cases - an awkward social encounter involved men manipulated by her "baby talking voice" and over exposed fake breasts and sex talk that they had ZERO clue they were being drawn into. I would have ended up looking like the one with the problem had I addressed it - so I cut her off socially. I stopped being her friend. It just wasn't worth any enjoyment I got from having a "fun girlfriend" to pal around with.
3. Regarding men edging out other men with manipulation - I have witnessed the narcissist in my case- cutting other men down, telling me that the other man only wanted me for sex, emasculating him or putting down his education, upbringing, intelligence etc. undermining friendships, etc. The way he did it was effective in the sense that he was able to make me doubt others and then isolate myself from them. He did this out of his own insecurity but because I was afraid of his reactions and didnt want to hurt his feelings, I responded to his words by moving away from those men.
Fake Friends?
When I am upset with someone about their lack
of friendship, support, or respect toward me, the first thing I ask is
"how much friendship, support, or respect have I shown them, really and
truly? What is the actual history, and not just the one in my head right
now?" After enough soul searching, a clearer picture is usually
revealed. Sometimes it shows that I am expecting more from them than I give,
or forgetting the support they have given me. Sometimes it shows that
they are just living their life with no ill intention toward anyone, and
I am just feeling overwhelmed. Still, sometimes it shows that I am
expecting friendship from a person who has already shown that they're
not capable of friendship, support, or respect, or that they haven't
shown any of these things toward me specifically, only toward others.
Whatever the picture reveals, it is closer to reality which helps me to better navigate my surroundings and relationships, and manage my feelings.
Whatever the picture reveals, it is closer to reality which helps me to better navigate my surroundings and relationships, and manage my feelings.
Enlightenment
The first step on the path to enlightenment is the hardest; it is to simply listen, and hear.
And when you have done so, go to the beginning and listen again, and hear what you missed.
When you have mastered this first step, you will have truly begun.
Your second step is to listen longer, and to hear more.
And when you have done so, go to the beginning and listen again, and hear what you missed.
When you have mastered this first step, you will have truly begun.
Your second step is to listen longer, and to hear more.
Control Issues, Tuning Out
"Tuning out" is what those with control issues do on a daily basis.
It is nearly impossible to have a direct conversation about anything relational with a person who has control issues. Some people have control issues because they are overwhelmed, defensive, and feel like they are being controlled by others. Some have control issues because they developed it as a coping skill during childhood. Some have OCD or some form of autism that causes them to need to have things a certain way or they feel very anxious. Still others simply feel compelled or entitled to be in control, and will do anything to maintain that position, regardless of the effect it has on others.
To have a direct, real, reciprocal conversation with them about a real subject, where you speak and they actually can hear what you say, and then they respond to what you actually said in a conversational tone, can be nearly impossible. When the subject has to do with their actions or the relationship between you, they will usually try to change the subject, sidestep the topic, leave or hang up, or derail the entire conversation by becoming argumentative or hostile.
Their thoughts are running while you are speaking. They do not hear your words, they don't listen to your words, they don't try to understand the concept that you are communicating. They don't CARE what you have to say; their only concern is that you pay attention to what THEY say, or do what they want you to do.
For a controller, hearing and truly taking in another point of view that is different from their own is tantamount to listening to nails on a chalkboard. If you are not saying something that makes them feel good, even if it's just neutral, they will tune it out. This is why they cannot hear you when you speak. Why they cannot have a discussion about anything they don't initiate, already agree with, or makes them feel comfortable.
When a person who has control issues replies to you, it is often completely off topic, or an entirely NEW topic. They will speak as if you had not spoken at all. They will even do things like repeat what you said, as if they had thought of it, with no acknowledgment that you were actually the one who said it. (They heard the words and simply assimilated them into their own thought stream, without listening TO YOU.) They may ask you a question and just ignore you when you answer, and talk right over you. They may change the subject so frequently and quickly, and bounce from one topic to another so fast that that there is no way to even reply. They are talking to talk, not to converse. They want you to hear THEIR words, THEIR thoughts, THEIR feelings, THEIR ideas, but they really have no interest in hearing yours.
Your thoughts, feelings, needs and wants are insignificant to a controller, nearly non-existent. Their world is as if they are the only real person in it, even if they think they love or care for you. They won't read what you write, and they won't hear what you say, and they won't respond directly to anything from you. They can't, they didn't hear what you said.
The only exception to this is when they want to tell you that you are wrong, which can be very frustrating or heartbreaking, since it's the only time they seem to hear you.
Ironically, the person who has control issues can feel very, very frustrated, lonely, or rejected because they don't feel HEARD, or they feel like all you do is disagree with them or dismiss them (unless they are a Malignant Narcissistic Sociopath who is doing all the control behaviors on purpose.) They are often unaware that they are so adamant in being heard that they have stopped listening to others altogether. You could ask them 50 questions and they may not answer a single one; they will just keep saying the same thing as before, as if you had not asked a single one. You could write them a letter outlining point by point the things that are on your mind and in your heart, and they may not acknowledge a single one of them; you may as well have not even written it.
The one thing that can help in dealing with a person who has control issues, (if they are NOT a Narcissist or Sociopath), is knowing that they most likely really can't help it at the moment. They are doing it to protect themselves in some way that they themselves probably don't understand. Or, they learned it in childhood and don't realize that their communication habits are robbing them of rich and wonderful experiences. Most people with control issues do not seek help, and become extremely defensive if someone requests for them to do anything to change their control habits. They may not ever learn better communication or interaction skills, but those around them can learn how to detach and see it more objectively. When a person with control issues ignores what I say, I know it's not my fault; "shortcomings" of mine did not cause them to do so. I can let go of the feeling that I did something wrong, or that I am not "enough" of a person.
It is nearly impossible to have a direct conversation about anything relational with a person who has control issues. Some people have control issues because they are overwhelmed, defensive, and feel like they are being controlled by others. Some have control issues because they developed it as a coping skill during childhood. Some have OCD or some form of autism that causes them to need to have things a certain way or they feel very anxious. Still others simply feel compelled or entitled to be in control, and will do anything to maintain that position, regardless of the effect it has on others.
To have a direct, real, reciprocal conversation with them about a real subject, where you speak and they actually can hear what you say, and then they respond to what you actually said in a conversational tone, can be nearly impossible. When the subject has to do with their actions or the relationship between you, they will usually try to change the subject, sidestep the topic, leave or hang up, or derail the entire conversation by becoming argumentative or hostile.
Their thoughts are running while you are speaking. They do not hear your words, they don't listen to your words, they don't try to understand the concept that you are communicating. They don't CARE what you have to say; their only concern is that you pay attention to what THEY say, or do what they want you to do.
For a controller, hearing and truly taking in another point of view that is different from their own is tantamount to listening to nails on a chalkboard. If you are not saying something that makes them feel good, even if it's just neutral, they will tune it out. This is why they cannot hear you when you speak. Why they cannot have a discussion about anything they don't initiate, already agree with, or makes them feel comfortable.
When a person who has control issues replies to you, it is often completely off topic, or an entirely NEW topic. They will speak as if you had not spoken at all. They will even do things like repeat what you said, as if they had thought of it, with no acknowledgment that you were actually the one who said it. (They heard the words and simply assimilated them into their own thought stream, without listening TO YOU.) They may ask you a question and just ignore you when you answer, and talk right over you. They may change the subject so frequently and quickly, and bounce from one topic to another so fast that that there is no way to even reply. They are talking to talk, not to converse. They want you to hear THEIR words, THEIR thoughts, THEIR feelings, THEIR ideas, but they really have no interest in hearing yours.
Your thoughts, feelings, needs and wants are insignificant to a controller, nearly non-existent. Their world is as if they are the only real person in it, even if they think they love or care for you. They won't read what you write, and they won't hear what you say, and they won't respond directly to anything from you. They can't, they didn't hear what you said.
The only exception to this is when they want to tell you that you are wrong, which can be very frustrating or heartbreaking, since it's the only time they seem to hear you.
Ironically, the person who has control issues can feel very, very frustrated, lonely, or rejected because they don't feel HEARD, or they feel like all you do is disagree with them or dismiss them (unless they are a Malignant Narcissistic Sociopath who is doing all the control behaviors on purpose.) They are often unaware that they are so adamant in being heard that they have stopped listening to others altogether. You could ask them 50 questions and they may not answer a single one; they will just keep saying the same thing as before, as if you had not asked a single one. You could write them a letter outlining point by point the things that are on your mind and in your heart, and they may not acknowledge a single one of them; you may as well have not even written it.
The one thing that can help in dealing with a person who has control issues, (if they are NOT a Narcissist or Sociopath), is knowing that they most likely really can't help it at the moment. They are doing it to protect themselves in some way that they themselves probably don't understand. Or, they learned it in childhood and don't realize that their communication habits are robbing them of rich and wonderful experiences. Most people with control issues do not seek help, and become extremely defensive if someone requests for them to do anything to change their control habits. They may not ever learn better communication or interaction skills, but those around them can learn how to detach and see it more objectively. When a person with control issues ignores what I say, I know it's not my fault; "shortcomings" of mine did not cause them to do so. I can let go of the feeling that I did something wrong, or that I am not "enough" of a person.
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